Hot take: Good for them.
This will have zero impact on 99% of independent developers. Most small companies can move to an alternative or roll their own infrastructure. This will only really impact large corporations. I’m all for corporation-on-corporation violence. Let them fight.
Enshitification is a very, very real thing. GitLab did something similar with raising pricing by 5x a few years back.
How is the transition from docker to podman? I’m using two compose scripts and like 10 containers each. And portainer to comfortably restart stuff on the fly
I’d say about 99% is the same.
Two notable things that were different were:
- Podman config file is different which I needed to edit where containers are stored since I have a dedicated location I want to use
- The preferred method for running Nvidia GPUs in containers is CDI, which imo is much more concise than Docker’s Nvidia GPU device setup.
The second one is also documented on the CUDA Container Toolkit site, and very easy to edit a compose file to use CDI instead.
There’s also some small differences here and there like podman asking for a preferred remote source instead of defaulting to dockerhub.
from what I can gather its currently recommended to use quadlets to generate systemd units to achieve what compose was doing. podman compose is a thing but IIRC I didn’t find that was straight drop in and I had to change the syntax or formatting a bit for it to work and from the brief testing I have put in quadlets seems less hassle, but if you use a non systemd distro then I don’t know.
I can only provide my experience; it was a drop-in replacement. I have 7 services running and 3 db containers. I was able to migrate using the Podman official instructions without issue.
you didn’t need anything like docker with web 1.0; you just needed cuteftp and a text editor.
Surely you mean WS_FTP LE.
Me, still using winscp for random nonsense.
Their entire offering is such a joke. I’m forced to use Docker Desktop for work, as we’re on Windows. Every time that piece of shit gets updated, it’s more useless garbage. Endless security snake oil features. Their installer even messes with your WSL home directory. They literally fuck with your AWS and Azure credentials to make it more “convenient” for you to use their cloud integrations. When they implemented that, they just deleted my AWS profile from my home directory, because they felt it should instead be a symlink to my Windows home directory. These people are not to be trusted with elevated privileges on your system. They actively abuse the privilege.
The only reason they exist is that they are holding the majority of images hostage on their registry. Their customers are similarly being held hostage, because they started to use Docker on Windows desktops and are now locked in. Nobody gives a shit about any of their benefits. Free technology and hosting was their setup, now they let everyone bleed who got caught. Prices will rise until they find their sweet spot. Thanks for the tech. Now die already.
I switched to running docker inside wsl2 (installed as per their docs) and so far it’s been working well.
I actually thought this headline was a joke (i.e. adding 80% of 0 to 0 equals 0), until I clicked the link to see that people actually pay for Docker? I guess this is for Enterprise?
I have never really had much use for it, so never have installed it, but it seems like everyone here uses Docker, which is surprising given the cost and what you just said.
Yeah they witch hunt you pretty bad about using docker in Enterprise
This speaks to my soul so much. I started at a non profit 2 years ago and it pains me how much the company spends on Oracle and docker now and no one does anything about it. So much of our infrastructure is built to rely on these things that we can’t just do without them when they do crazy shit like this. And Oracle and docker can afford to do this as long as a few cash cows hang on like us. Hostage is the worst and best description.
Wait…y’all were paying for Docker?
Corp accounts, Docker Desktop isn’t free for non-personal use
That gives me an idea - managers can ask staff to learn the CLI and give them gift cards for what it would have cost to license the Docker Desktop client 🧠
Dev containers have been dead for a long time.
Docker is not only about dependency management. It also offers service “composing”, via
docker compose, and network isolation for each service.Although I personally love Nix, and I run NixOS on some of my servers, I do not believe it can replace Docker/Podman. Unless you go the NixOS Containers route.
Interfaces,vlans and capable gateway. Except instead of the vendor lock in you have access to the gold standards of which all out scale
Maybe to the two dozen nix users. To all others dev containers are very well alive.
Lol. Its the largest and most updated repo of any but by all means, “dozen” hahaha
Are there any decent alternatives to docker hub for pushing images if I’m just a hobbyist?
Github has a container register you can use.
At work we get around this by not having docker or anything similar set up in the first place.
I’m getting tired of it lol
Folks, the docker runtime is open source, and not even the only one of its kind. They won’t charge for that. If they tried to make it closed source, everyone would just laugh and switch to one of several completely free alternatives. They charge for hosting images, build time on their build servers, and various “premium” developer tools you don’t need. In fact, you need none of this, you can do all of it yourself on whatever hardware you deem to be good enough. There are also many other hosted alternatives out there.
Docker thinks they have a monopoly, for some reason. If you use the technology, you are probably already aware that they don’t.
If they tried to close source it, someone would just fork it.
Does that include running Windows containers? It seems like the alternatives don’t support those.
Windows container runtime is free as well, simply install the docker runtime from chocolatey or winget along with the Windows Containers and Hyper-V windows features. This is what we do on some build machines for CI.
Theres no reason to use desktop other than “ease of use”
There are some reasons. Networking can get messed up, so Docker Desktop “fixed that” for you, but the dirty secret is it’s basically a Linux VM with Docker CE and some convenience network routes.
Youre talking about Linux containers on Windows, I think commenter above was referring to windows containers on Windows, which is its own special hell for lucky folks like me.
Otherwise I totally agree. Ive done both setups without docker desktop.
Does anybody actually use that feature though?
There are always lost sheep in the fields.
Are You guys really pulling more than 40 images per hour? Isn’t the free one enough?
One of the previous places I worked at had about a dozen outbound IP addresses (company VPN).
We also had 10k developers who all used docker.
We exhausted the rate limit constantly. They paid for an unlimited account and we just would queue an automation that would pull the image and mirror it into the local artifact repo
A enterprise company that has 10k developers should just invest in their own image hub. It’s not really that hard to do. Docker even open-sourced it under Apache2.0.
A single malfunctioning service that restarts in a loop can exhaust the limit near instantly. And now you can’t bring up any of your services, because you’re blocked.
I’ve been there plenty of times. If you have to rely on docker.io, you better pay up. Running your own NexusRM or Harbor to proxy it can drastically improve your situation though.
Docker is a pile of shit. Steer clear entirely of any of their offerings if possible.
I use docker at home and at work, nexus at work too. I really don’t understand… even a malfunctioning service should not pull the image over and over, there should be a cache… It could be some fringe case, but I have never experienced it.
Ultimately, it doesn’t matter what caused you to be blocked from Docker Hub due to rate-limiting. When you’re in that scenario, it’s most cost efficient to buy your way out.
If you can’t even imagine what would lead up to such a situation, congratulations, because it really sucks.
Yes, there should be a cache. But sometimes people force pull images on service start, to ensure they get the latest “latest” tag. Every tag floats, not just “latest”. Lots of people don’t pin digests in their OCI references. This almost implies wanting to refresh cached tags regularly. Especially when you start critical services, you might pull their tag in case it drifted.
Consider you have multiple hosts in your home lab, all running a good couple services, you roll out that new container runtime upgrade to your network, it resets all caches and restarts all services. Some pulls fail. Some of them are for DNS and other critical services. Suddenly your entire network is down, and you can’t even get on the Internet, because your pihole doesn’t start. You can’t recover, because you’re rate-limited.
I’ve been there a couple of times until I worked on better resilience, but relying on docker.io is still a problem in general. I did pay them for quite some time.
This is only one scenario where their service bit me. As a developer, it gets even more unpleasant, and I’m not talking commercial.
On Lemmy, it’s a sin to make money off your work, especially if it is opensource core projects providing paid infrastructure/support. You can only ask for donations and/or quit. No in-between.
We just build from scratch and pull nothing
Even at work we don’t pull that many, and we have dozens of developers.
Also its 40 per hour per user
Podman or Rancher Desktop
Rancher got a lot better very quickly, but I’ve never used podman and have heard mixed things about it… Might give it a whirl at some point, but I’ve been saying that to myself for years
Oh. This is /technology. I thought pants were about to go way up in price for a second.
Glad I’m not the only one
Is this the program that open source people use to install all the random depencies that their program needs to work? The one that people tell me to use when I complain about git bash pico sudo pytorch Install commands?
Or did another company copy their name?
Not having to install dependencies is a benefit of containers and their images. That’s a pretty big thing to miss. Maybe give it a closer look.
I mean, they’re one implementor of about 10 that provide the same container standard. It sucks that they were first so their name is now synonymous with containers a la Kleenex, but the technology itself is standard, very open and ubiquitous, and a huge step forward in simplifying deployments that would otherwise be too complex to reasonably handle.
To be fair, I used LXC before Docker, so I’ve always called them “containers.” But I guess I’m old or something.
Nope. Docker doesn’t do that. That’s something else.
But it does in a lot of cases. At work, we use Docker images to bundle our dependencies for each microservice, and at home, I use Docker images for the same reason on my self-hosted repos. It’s fantastic for running servers in a sandbox so you don’t have to worry about what dependencies the host has.
But perhaps OP is talking about flatpaks instead.
Podman guys… Podman All the way…
We’ve completely transitioned from podman to docker where I work. The only pain point was podman compose being immature compared to docker compose, but turns out you can run docker compose with podman using the podman socket easily.
I gave podman compose a fresh try just the other day and was happy to see that it “just worked”.
I’m personally pissed about aardvark-dns, which provides DNS for podman. The version that is still in Debian Stable sets a TTL of 24h on A record responses. This caused my entire service network to be disrupted whenever a pod restarted. The default behavior for similar resolvers is to set a TTL of 0. It’s like people who maintain it take it as an opportunity to rewrite existing solutions in Rust and implement all the bugs they can. Sometimes feels like someone just thought it would be a fun summer break project to implement DNS or network security.
I think you wrote it back ways: transitioned from docker to podman?
Yeah podman should use quadlets, not compose, but still works just fine with docker compose and the podman socket!
I don’t think you even need Docker licenses to run Linux containers, but unfortunately I need to deal with this because I have some legacy software running in windows containers.
That’s not the point. Maybe you can, but for how long? you will never stop asking the question with docker…
