There is an old Disney documentary called “Animals are Beautiful People”. There is a segment of the movie dedicated to showing how monkeys, elephants, giraffes, and other animals can get shitfaced off rotten fruit.
Some birds also intentionally make fruit ferment and then get shit-faced off of it. Humans are hardly the first species on this planet to make booze.
Some birds eat spicey chilis because it makes them hallucinate and get high.
So Jesus is a “fallen man”, ok.
He also only turned the water into wine because his mother nagged him to do it. Two of the people thought to be the most perfect and infallible in Christian tradition are actually fallen people. I think it’s pretty noble to abstain from alcohol or other addictions but the way this guy does it is so belittling.
There’s literally a nebula out there that is almost pure ethanol that tastes of raspberry. I’ve no clue how we figured out what it would taste like, but there is literally enough alcohol there to keep the next 500 generations of humans perpetually shit faced even with the population boom that would occur.
I refer to it as “God’s Distillery.”
Infrared light gets absorbed by organic molecules at specific wavelengths depending on what structure they have. So we can look at IR light that has passed through the nebula to see what molecules are in it. The first article I saw said the cloud has ethyl formate which apparently has a raspberry like flavor.
I went to a church when I was a kid that taught that wine was completely non-alcoholic in biblical times.
Remarkable how ignorant of their own bible the teetotalling Christians are. Without refrigeration grape juice becomes unsafe to drink quickly. Fermenting it was the only way it would keep. Also in 1 Tim 3:8 mentions to not have men as deacons if they’re “addicted to much wine”, clearly showing this was not grape juice they’re talking about.
It’s even more directly stated, and specifically about the wine Jesus made. After he turned water into wine, the guests were specifically remarking that hosts generally feed their guests good wine early in the night and pull out cheaper wine after the guests are drunk and can’t tell the difference… But in this case they saved the best for last.
This is great because it also is a counter point to the argument that some preachers say to the youth about it being DRUNKENNESS that god doesn’t like.
Nope, not intrinsically, because Jesus lit up a party full of ALREADY drunk people with more booze.
Well the Bible is clear that drunkenness is a sin. It’s stated many times, old and new testament, and without a doubt it’s a problem for a lot of people. But the wedding party wine is a good example that there’s no issue with having a party and people drinking, and as you said, Jesus supplies more wine after they run out. He didn’t feel the need to police everyone.
I disagree that the bible is clear that it’s a sin. It’s murky at best.
There are many warnings of being drunk leading to other sins. I think it’s implied that routine drunkenness inevitably at least leads to sloth. I think there is an important distinction between “getting drunk” and “being a drunkard”.
It’s pretty clear Paul wasn’t a fan.
But like, Paul wasn’t the Christ. Paul can hate all he wants but the fact remains that Jesus got a party full of people who were ALREADY drunk MORE DRUNK.
So, either Christ will himself tempt others into sin or it isn’t a sin.
I think it’s important to consider the position on temptation. If your hand causes you to sin, it’s better to cut it off kinda thing. If getting drunk leads you to sin, you shouldn’t get drunk.
In the same way that nobody in the bible or in the same realms of the living would suggest preemptively cutting off the hands and gouging out the eyes at birth to ensure no sins caused by those body parts, it’s similarly reasonable to not take a same blanket preemptive stance on getting drunk.
I’d never stop someone from making a personal choice not to drink, for literally any reason. I’m pretty wary of anyone who says the bible is “clear” on what is and isn’t a sin, though.
The definition of sin is the most boring and inconsequential part of the Christian faith and it’s such a shame how many Christians are exclusively obsessed with it.
For anyone that doesnt know, humans have evolved a significant tolerance to alcohol because it does infact exist in nature in rotting fruit (you take what you can in 400000 bc) there are reports of moose losing it after only a few fermented Apples. And Elephant reportedly can get deliriously drunk off of a single beer.
I had a dog that loved beer but he was a nasty drunk. He would knock beers over to lap them up, then start growling and barking for more. Then he’d puke, eat the puke, and pass out.
I’ve seen this exact thing, a little terrier would wait for everyone to leave the room then he’d knock everyone’s beers over and get shirfaced. I don’t remember him being violent unless you tried to take the beer away
Then he’d puke, eat the puke, and pass out.
Probably because hops are toxic to dogs.
Sounds like a roommate I had once. You’re sure he wasn’t just a short bearded man named Matthew?
The ones who couldn’t tolerate liquor couldn’t get laid? That checks out actually.
We had a tree with some sort of red berries on it. Every autumn birds would have a bird party getting drunk off the fermented berries. Alcohol appears in nature all the fucking time
Homebrewer/fermenter checking in. Yeast is everywhere. Its already on everything. To an extent where homebrewing has a special category called wild or spontaneous fermentation specifically for stuff made just by letting wild yeast settle on it and start going to town. Which is to say that if you’re a bit lucky the only thing you need in order for wine to happen is fruit. Do you know how you make a fermented pepper sauce? Kim chi? Sauerkraut? You just need whatever it is you’re trying to ferment, and some salt. That’s it. The fermentation will just happen. Some small amount of alcohol will just happen.
