I visit China frequently for work and feel that the impression most older Americans have of China is incredibly out of touch. The traditional media portrayal of the country is definitely a part of this. Yes, it’s certainly an authoritarian state, but this doesn’t change whether the people are nice or what they want in life.
I think it’s probably better to simply say that “authoritarian” is a buzzword, though your implied argument that all states work by exerting authority on (at least some portion of) their population is certainly true. Anyone who uses a term like “authoritarian” rather than even a marginally more-descriptive negative term like, idk, “bureaucratic” or “state capitalist” (which gets misused, but I digress) is immediately demonstrating themselves to have untrustworthy judgement on the topic
maybe bring back totalitarian and use it against countries like the US? have a word that, like Huey P. Newton said regarding coining the term ‘pig’ for police, “highlights the contradiction”, in this case, between the selective usage of a word and it’s inherent meaning, none of which is understandable without contradictions from a prescriptive linguistic context
You are probably right, I was really just trying to talk about how, as it currently stands, the people who use the term are basically just expressing either that they fell for a thought-terminating cliche or are expecting their audience to fall for it.
Well, every state enforces its laws and its territorial claims through the use of unilateral violence; if a person doesn’t agree with a state’s law, the state isn’t going to exempt them from it, it will make them follow it by force. More importantly, the state maintains that this is a moral and legitimate use of force: that it has the authority to do this.
And yes most states (all states really) have procedures by which their citizens can have a say in what the laws should be, but what they never do is cede any authority. Everybody has to follow the law, and will be forced to if needed.
the state maintains that this is a moral and legitimate use of force: that it has the authority to do this.
I don’t necessarily agree with “moral”. In western democracies laws and use of force doesn’t legitimize itself by a call to morality usually. Just using some kind of authority, doesn’t make a government authoritarian by any common definition of the word.
I don’t necessarily agree with “moral”. In western democracies laws and use of force doesn’t legitimize itself by a call to morality usually.
It absolutely does imo, it legitimises itself through an appeal to an underlying moral framework.
Just using some kind of authority, doesn’t make a government authoritarian by any common definition of the word.
Actually it pretty much does, atleast if you actually stick to definition. In practice, of course, the word is mostly just used as a snarl word to attack enemy countries, but at that point definitions have gone out the windows.
You misunderstand me fairly severely. I did not say that the state enforces “moral law”, or anything even close to that.
I said that the state maintains that it is moral for it to enforce law at all. Because generally speaking, it is not considered moral to unilaterally compel people, with violence if necessary, to behave in ways they do not agree to, and to not believe they should have to.
Usually codified by lawy not prosecuted as “immoral behaviour” as such. Although if you look at recent anti-abortion legislation in the US it is intentionally vague. That shifts some burden of interpretation to the executive branch and is a sign of authoritarianism I’d say.
I’ve been once for work. Didn’t have an issue with anyone there. I live in Australia now and a few of my friends are Chinese. In fact, I’ve had 2 Chinese really good friends / best friends
I visit China frequently for work and feel that the impression most older Americans have of China is incredibly out of touch. The traditional media portrayal of the country is definitely a part of this. Yes, it’s certainly an authoritarian state, but this doesn’t change whether the people are nice or what they want in life.
Technically every state is an authoritarian state.
I think it’s probably better to simply say that “authoritarian” is a buzzword, though your implied argument that all states work by exerting authority on (at least some portion of) their population is certainly true. Anyone who uses a term like “authoritarian” rather than even a marginally more-descriptive negative term like, idk, “bureaucratic” or “state capitalist” (which gets misused, but I digress) is immediately demonstrating themselves to have untrustworthy judgement on the topic
maybe bring back totalitarian and use it against countries like the US? have a word that, like Huey P. Newton said regarding coining the term ‘pig’ for police, “highlights the contradiction”, in this case, between the selective usage of a word and it’s inherent meaning, none of which is understandable without contradictions from a prescriptive linguistic context
You are probably right, I was really just trying to talk about how, as it currently stands, the people who use the term are basically just expressing either that they fell for a thought-terminating cliche or are expecting their audience to fall for it.
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Authoritarianism was a bullshit term invented by child-fucker libertarians to frame themselves as being the good guys.
I mean, yes, that too.
Hot take. What’s the eli5 behind the idea?
Well, every state enforces its laws and its territorial claims through the use of unilateral violence; if a person doesn’t agree with a state’s law, the state isn’t going to exempt them from it, it will make them follow it by force. More importantly, the state maintains that this is a moral and legitimate use of force: that it has the authority to do this.
And yes most states (all states really) have procedures by which their citizens can have a say in what the laws should be, but what they never do is cede any authority. Everybody has to follow the law, and will be forced to if needed.
I don’t necessarily agree with “moral”. In western democracies laws and use of force doesn’t legitimize itself by a call to morality usually. Just using some kind of authority, doesn’t make a government authoritarian by any common definition of the word.
It absolutely does imo, it legitimises itself through an appeal to an underlying moral framework.
Actually it pretty much does, atleast if you actually stick to definition. In practice, of course, the word is mostly just used as a snarl word to attack enemy countries, but at that point definitions have gone out the windows.
Yes, but very indirectly. We don’t have a “moral police”, but one that enforces laws which are, as you say, legitimized by the people as a sovereign.
So you don’t see police stopping people on “moral grounds” in some vague interpretation.
You misunderstand me fairly severely. I did not say that the state enforces “moral law”, or anything even close to that.
I said that the state maintains that it is moral for it to enforce law at all. Because generally speaking, it is not considered moral to unilaterally compel people, with violence if necessary, to behave in ways they do not agree to, and to not believe they should have to.
What about abortion? Tracking if women are pregnant and hunting them down if then stop being pregnant.
Usually codified by lawy not prosecuted as “immoral behaviour” as such. Although if you look at recent anti-abortion legislation in the US it is intentionally vague. That shifts some burden of interpretation to the executive branch and is a sign of authoritarianism I’d say.
And every functional family.
wait i have something relevant to say too…
It is authoritarian to ask your children to go to bed on time
no I think it’s, um actually, only when parents tell their kids in china / s <— to indicate it’s sarcasm
Traffic lights in China is a sign that the CPC will go to extreme lengths to micro manage traffic and human movement.
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Another USA bot peddling the same debunked conspiracies.
That makes no sense.
It absolutely does.
I’ve been once for work. Didn’t have an issue with anyone there. I live in Australia now and a few of my friends are Chinese. In fact, I’ve had 2 Chinese really good friends / best friends
None of them agree with the government at all