I’ve long been annoyed that everyone, including myself uses Paypal/ Venmo for moving money around. What alternatives do you find useful? Here’s a list (https://alternativeto.net/software/venmo/). GNU Taler looks viable (https://taler.net/en/index.html). I would love to have your thoughts!
Edit: Thanks for everyone’s input. I really appreciate it. <3
The answer to that is obviously going to be Monero.
XMR / Monero - open source, fungible, private digital cash
It usually can’t be used with retailors, but you can send your friend circle lunch money and the like easily. https://www.getmonero.org/
Can you explain real world uses for purchases using XMR? Or where online it’s accepted? It seems cash is still king.
Online uses https://kycnot.me/?t=service
You can donate xmr to grapheneos, molly.im etc
Real life, that’s more sticky, if you find someone who is privacy minded and you have a relationship with them you could setup trading for xmr.
Monero is great for online purchases, but a 2 minute confirmation time is real annoying for IRL purchases. Lightning txs confirm in under a second for less fees too.
Money transfer platforms are even worse than chat apps in terms of how acceptance dictates usefulness. You might convince a couple of friends to use xmpp instead of whatsapp. But its near impossible to get major outlets to integrate new payment methods. Especially if that platform advocates privacy and therefore doesn’t offer a return on invest based on user data. I don’t think we’re gonna see true alternatives without government regulation, and even then…
So true - and I hate having to use specific ones for specific people. Apple Cash works well within my family, I use Venmo for my teen’s drivers Ed, and Zelle for house cleaner
GNU Taler would be the future privacy-focused alternative if you live in europe. Only if EU sees the potential it has and decides to use it for the upcoming digital euro, that is. For now, you can either use cash irl and monero online. The privacy GNU Taler provides in an online state is between normal card payments and cash, while offline usage is close to cash.
Digital euro: https://www.ecb.europa.eu/euro/digital_euro/html/index.en.html
GNU Taler: https://taler.net/en/
GNU Taler looks interesting, but is it usable today?
It’s apparently designed around exchanges, and I don’t see any exchanges mentioned on the site. Do any actually exist?
The FAQ mentions depending on wire transfers, which have famously high fees that would have to be passed on to users somehow. Aggregating payments into delayed settlement transfers could mitigate that cost between high-volume organizations, but it won’t help people who just need send money to each other. (Meanwhile, ACH transfers are practically free, but I don’t know if they fit Taler’s design or plans.) Does Taler have a plan to solve this?
I don’t quite understand how it works yet, so wonder: would it work in sanctioned locations, like how, say, Monero can?
Taler is not ment to be completely censorship resistant. It takes the side of dealing with goverment, law and other things and is expected to be used in areas with working democracy.
A private alternative to MasterCard, PayPal, Stripe, etc. not a new currency or completely different banking system. And we need it.
Zelle
I’ve seen Zelle recommended. And as it turns out my bank uses it, as well. From Alternativeto:
License Model: Free, Proprietary Platforms; Android, iPhone
Zelle® has partnered with leading banks and credit unions across the U.S. to bring you a fast, safe and easy way to send money to friends and family. Money moves quickly - directly from bank account to bank account.
Partenered with? It’s owned by BOA, US Bank, Wells Fargo and JP Morgan Chase. Might be used by smaller folks too but was started by those goons to try to capture mobile and p2p needs and is proprietary and doubtless whores your data. Stay away.
BTC lightning.
Why are you annoyed by Paypal and Venmo? What do you want changed? KYC and these companies having control of your money is common on all these everyday platforms. If you want a real change you need to use self custodial non-KYC crypto currencies.
I’m annoyed by Paypal, Venmo (and other similar vehicles) because they use what should be a simple process (one person giving money to another person) to invade our privacy and to siphon value towards billionaires. I’d rather be able to transfer funds with the simplicity and precision of giving the person standing before me a ‘fiver’. And without someone else making bank off the transaction, for clarity’s sake.
KYC defined: “The Know Your Client (KYC) or Know Your Customer (KYC) is a process to verify the identity and other credentials of a financial services user. KYC is a regulatory process of ascertaining the identity and other information of a financial services user.” https://corporatefinanceinstitute.com/resources/wealth-management/know-your-client-kyc/
Zelle is the closest acceptable alternative to PayPal, Venmo, and Cash App.
I like GNU Taler because it’s privacy preserving for the customer, is Free, Open Source, and is self hosted. And also because it’s not a new/ different currency.
@Atelopus-zeteki How does it work?
As the website states, it’s not a new cryptocurrency coin. It works only if the bank wants to support it since GNU Taler is more like a plugin. When you want to pay a merchant, it directly withdraws money from your bank account and converts it to coins for your wallet to deposit. The bank knows where this coin is sent. However after depositing, the wallet tries to pay the shop. At this point, afaik the wallet makes a cryptographic proof with details like the amount of coins, sends it to the bank and the bank blindly signs it with their private key. Blind signatures are signatures where the signer does not know what the contents of what they are signing are. So the other bank or the shop can know that it came from that bank without the bank knowing from where the coins came. The bank however knows where the coins are going, so you can hold them accountable in case something happens. But you of course must reveal your identity for those things. Since cryptography is used, you can prove payments to merchants. GNU Taler can also be used offline, but I don’t know how that works.
(there might be misconceptions in here so don’t take my words blindly)
Here’s a nice image I found online:
Thank you, that’s most helpful. And no I won’t take your words blindly. Trust, and verify. :-) I’ll need to make sure my bank/ credit union is on with GNU Taler, tho’ it sounds unlikely, at this time.
Hellifiknow. I’m just some frog on the intarwebs who wants to learn. :-) Can someone elaborate on GNU Taler?
