I think in this context bullying can be expanded to its summative affect at the level of the society. This accumlative persecution is cultural and does in turn lesd to internal beliefs that one’s perceived deviance, as pushed by the dominant social narrative, is unworthy.
There are studies that demonstrate societal pressures/persecution does lead to increased rates of suicide. This is most notable within marginalized groups supporting the point made above.
If you have time for a podcast, ScienceVS has done two episodes on trans people with well researched citations. The more recent episode looks specifically at the issue of bullying and negative trans experience. Hope this helps. Cheers!
Bullying makes it seem like its happening only in a school playground, and doesn’t even hint at the amount of discrimination they face.
Trans ppl face high levels of sexual assault, hate crimes, exclusion from family, lack of support networks, economic hardship from not being able to get hired, medical discrimination, societal discrimination, and a whole lot more.
I understand the full scope of what you are saying, but if these factors were the cause then you would see higher relative rates among groups that have been even more harmed throughout history.
Jews in the haulocaust, or black slaves, or blacks in the south after slavery ended. There are probably a lot of good data sets I am not aware of that study these kinds of things have data on.
Is that referring to 41%, 41 per 1000, or some other metric entirely? Either way it’s too damn high, but I’m curious and I don’t know how to go about researching it without potentially making the almighty algorithm think I’m anti-trans.
I’m still not sure if I understand the intended joke. An average of 41 attempts per person sounds horrific. I’m sure there is something that’s going over my head, it’s some kind of dark humor, correct?
Specifically, it’s percent of adults who have attempted, not completed. I don’t think anyone in this thread is suggesting it’s the latter, but that was my first thought when I saw the statistic so I thonk it’s an important thing to note.
Thank you, I agree that it’s an important distinction to make. Having only been able to read the abstract of the linked article, do you perhaps have any information on the number of completed attempts compared to unsuccessful attempts?
I hope it goes without saying that even a single attempt is too many, and any completed attempts are devastating tragedies that don’t reflect kindly on our current society.
It certainly is. I know my sister has tried multiple times at this point and that’s with support of loved ones and friends. She is also fortunate to have always had access to her medication needs.
I sincerely hope that she has been trending in a positive direction. I’m glad to hear that her attempts have been unsuccessful, and that she has good love, support, and (hopefully helpful) medication in her life.
I imagine the knowledge of your sister struggling and suffering is hard on you too, and I wish the best for both of you.
It’s also not the suicide rate. It’s either the has attempted suicide at least once in their life rate or the thought about it rate. Can’t quite remember which, but definitely not the suicide rate.
I’m fairly certain it’s attempts now that I’ve looked at it again. It’s been a long time since I’ve read breakdowns of the studies and what the numbers all mean. It wasn’t as simple as 41% of trans people attempt suicide. The numbers went down post transition and I don’t think suicide attempts had to be serious attempts to be counted (I think it’s worth nitpicking this).
Edit: Tried finding the survey the number comes from and got a bunch of different responses that are just confusing me more at this point. I’m probably done here, since researching suicide statistics isn’t a ton of fun.
Cherry picked statistic of transgender suicide rate. They only look at that number, but never why that number is so high.
It’s almost like constant bullying has a major effect on people’s mental health
Bullying would not explain that high of a number unless direct persecution is shown to have very high suicide rates.
I think in this context bullying can be expanded to its summative affect at the level of the society. This accumlative persecution is cultural and does in turn lesd to internal beliefs that one’s perceived deviance, as pushed by the dominant social narrative, is unworthy. There are studies that demonstrate societal pressures/persecution does lead to increased rates of suicide. This is most notable within marginalized groups supporting the point made above.
I am open to actual data showing this from historically abused and marginalized group.
If you have time for a podcast, ScienceVS has done two episodes on trans people with well researched citations. The more recent episode looks specifically at the issue of bullying and negative trans experience. Hope this helps. Cheers!
I listened to that podcast, and it is just a one sided argument against a few studies, and just kind of hand waves away criticism or strawmans it.
Bullying makes it seem like its happening only in a school playground, and doesn’t even hint at the amount of discrimination they face.
Trans ppl face high levels of sexual assault, hate crimes, exclusion from family, lack of support networks, economic hardship from not being able to get hired, medical discrimination, societal discrimination, and a whole lot more.
I understand the full scope of what you are saying, but if these factors were the cause then you would see higher relative rates among groups that have been even more harmed throughout history.
WHO???
And you don’t?
Jews in the haulocaust, or black slaves, or blacks in the south after slavery ended. There are probably a lot of good data sets I am not aware of that study these kinds of things have data on.
Do you have any non-horrible opinions?
41% is awful. I had no idea it was this high.
Thank you for explaining.
Is that referring to 41%, 41 per 1000, or some other metric entirely? Either way it’s too damn high, but I’m curious and I don’t know how to go about researching it without potentially making the almighty algorithm think I’m anti-trans.
Well,
41would imply41/1 = 41, so…CC BY-NC-SA 4.0
I don’t understand, could you please elaborate?
x = x/1 = x is true for all numbers, no?
I mean to say that
41 implies 41/1 instead of 41/100 (41%) or 41/1000.
So 41 attempts per person.
It is supposed to be my attempt at humour.
CC BY-NC-SA 4.0
I’m sorry, I hope I didn’t offend you.
I’m still not sure if I understand the intended joke. An average of 41 attempts per person sounds horrific. I’m sure there is something that’s going over my head, it’s some kind of dark humor, correct?
I dunno. Maybe I’m just bad at making jokes, but you got the point.
41/1 = 4100/100 = 4100%Weereas,
41% = 41/100 = 0.41Percent
link
Specifically, it’s percent of adults who have attempted, not completed. I don’t think anyone in this thread is suggesting it’s the latter, but that was my first thought when I saw the statistic so I thonk it’s an important thing to note.
Thank you, I agree that it’s an important distinction to make. Having only been able to read the abstract of the linked article, do you perhaps have any information on the number of completed attempts compared to unsuccessful attempts?
I hope it goes without saying that even a single attempt is too many, and any completed attempts are devastating tragedies that don’t reflect kindly on our current society.
Thank you, that is absolutely heart-wrenching.
It certainly is. I know my sister has tried multiple times at this point and that’s with support of loved ones and friends. She is also fortunate to have always had access to her medication needs.
I sincerely hope that she has been trending in a positive direction. I’m glad to hear that her attempts have been unsuccessful, and that she has good love, support, and (hopefully helpful) medication in her life.
I imagine the knowledge of your sister struggling and suffering is hard on you too, and I wish the best for both of you.
After many years of suffering she’s finally on a upward trend. Engaged and planning for the future for the first time in at least a decade.
Man that number is high
It’s also not the suicide rate. It’s either the has attempted suicide at least once in their life rate or the thought about it rate. Can’t quite remember which, but definitely not the suicide rate.
Even including attempts that’s high as shit. Thought about it, then it might not be that high, depending on how serious the thought have to be.
Who hasn’t thought about suicide even once in their life? I mean really.
Yeah but like in a “how could you do that” kind of way, not an “actually considering it” kind of way.
A bit of the call of the void every now and then keeps you on the edge
Thought? Sure. But this was “attempted”, which is way past thinking of it
I’m fairly certain it’s attempts now that I’ve looked at it again. It’s been a long time since I’ve read breakdowns of the studies and what the numbers all mean. It wasn’t as simple as 41% of trans people attempt suicide. The numbers went down post transition and I don’t think suicide attempts had to be serious attempts to be counted (I think it’s worth nitpicking this).
Edit: Tried finding the survey the number comes from and got a bunch of different responses that are just confusing me more at this point. I’m probably done here, since researching suicide statistics isn’t a ton of fun.
That’s understandable
And if it is the suicide rate there’s no way it isn’t massively skewed by doing some fuckery about who is counted.
Like me in high school.