TL;DR

  • Efforts like Graphene OS face increasing pressure from apps that refuse to run on non-standard Android.
  • The custom ROM project characterizes Google’s approach to device attestation as incomplete and flawed.
  • Graphene OS is prepared to take legal action if Google won’t let it pass Play Integrity checks.
  • umbrella@lemmy.ml
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    3 months ago

    yeah. like my manufacturers’ 3-year-old, full-o-spyware ROM is more secure than latest lineage.

    they just want control, not security.

        • pdxfed@lemmy.world
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          3 months ago

          Yep been seeing more of that. Will just refuse to use it on my phone.

          It’s been clear for at least 10 years that apps are about data harvesting not making something more useful or easier to use or more universal than a mobile website.

        • vividspecter@lemm.ee
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          3 months ago

          I’d just leave for a different bank at that point, although I get that it’s not always practical.

      • umbrella@lemmy.ml
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        3 months ago

        thats what i do atm, but its a shitty solution when i have a perfectly good phone.

        the irony is, my second vanking phone is probably less secure, because its stuck in an ancient version of android.

        • Wildly_Utilize@infosec.pub
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          3 months ago

          Not disagreeing I was genuinely asking.

          For me it wouldnt be too inconvenient but I barely use banks so my perspective is atypical

            • Wildly_Utilize@infosec.pub
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              3 months ago

              Dont know what you mean sorry

              I did pull $600 out my sock at the best buy to buy my pixel recently tho lol

          • Manalith@midwest.social
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            3 months ago

            I do basically that, but with aSamsung tablet, then my phone can be for phone things, calls, messages, emails. Then if I’m out and about and need to check my bank, mobile hotspot to my phone and go from there.

    • Cyyy@lemmy.world
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      3 months ago

      same bs with apps not running jidt because root or apps not being visible in playstore because of it. Netflix isn’t even showing up as existing in playstore just because i have root. it’s nuts. and there are tons of apps like this.

      • ReveredOxygen@sh.itjust.works
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        3 months ago

        You can fix most apps with the Play Integrity Fix module and denylist. You might have to hide the magisk app too. It doesn’t get 100% of them though, I still can’t figure out how my bank app is catching it. Plus I’ve had RCS stop working with that setup, so I have to keep it disabled to avoid missing messages

        • numanair@lemmy.ml
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          3 months ago

          The apple music app checks for a specific binary. Could be something like that.

      • x00z@lemmy.world
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        3 months ago

        Netflix and their DRM is so extremely stupid it’s incomprehensible. It only hurts normal users while the rippers have no issues getting the content.

    • aquinteros@lemmy.world
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      3 months ago

      I have been using stock for a while, but I remember using magisk root to hide root to the bank app and I never had an issue

      • umbrella@lemmy.ml
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        3 months ago

        i do that but sadly it aint working anymore. they implemented a new google sanctioned way of blocking it that hasnt been cracked yet.

    • newproph@sh.itjust.works
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      3 months ago

      graphene sandboxes Google services so they don’t run as root on your device. I haven’t encountered an app I can’t get running on graphene yet and having Google play installed as non root is a far sight better than stock.

      my biggest problem with lineage was compatibility with banking apps so I reluctantly switched but graphene is a solid choice in operating system for privacy and security.

      • kspatlas@lemm.ee
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        3 months ago

        Graphene is great, but I’m currently on a Xiaomi phone so I can’t run most ROMs, I’ll likely run derpfest when I get the bootloader unlocked

          • kspatlas@lemm.ee
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            3 months ago

            I haven’t tried it yet, but it seems to have a lot of pixel features ported, I realized crDroid supports my phone so I might try that

        • newproph@sh.itjust.works
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          3 months ago

          not really. after enabling oem unlocking in developer options you just boot it while holding one of the volume buttons and you’re able to unlock the bootloader.

          root is not typically available and you don’t need it for most uses besides development, but even then, I would recommend not using a phone you daily for that.

          • umbrella@lemmy.ml
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            3 months ago

            sure, but unrooted custom roms also trip the protections.

            root can sometimes be used to mask that.

            • newproph@sh.itjust.works
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              3 months ago

              you’re already over my head but you can talk to the devs. they have a matrix chat they link on their site

  • flop_leash_973@lemmy.world
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    3 months ago

    The world of mobile phones is a real world example of what we avoided on the PC back in the day when the IBM BIOS got reverse engineered allowing for someone to put out an IBM compatible PC without having to pay the tithe to big blue first.

    It has been pretty depressing to me that the tech literate have been so easily lulled into accepting such things in the name of “cool toys” and “security” virtually everywhere in modern life besides the PC/laptop/server spaces.

    This sort of control and gatekeeping from the likes of Google, Apple, and Qualcomm was not something that was hard to see coming a mile away, yet we all collectively let it happen anyway.

    • dejected_warp_core@lemmy.world
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      3 months ago

      It has been pretty depressing to me that the tech literate have been so easily lulled into accepting such things in the name of “cool toys” and “security” virtually everywhere in modern life besides the PC/laptop/server spaces.

      From my exposure to supporting said folks with PC related problems, its easy to see the reality here. Phones provide a streamlined experience with zero frills. They don’t want super flexible computing devices, they want appliances. More to the point, the level of care and maintenance needed to have a top-shelf PC experience is time and effort most people would rather not expend. Doing this right was inconvenient to begin with, and left the field wide open for anything that would be easier.

      • flop_leash_973@lemmy.world
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        3 months ago

        My complaint is not that the “appliance” solutions exist for those that want them. But that there is next to no room in the market now for options that are not those “appliance” solutions for those that do want them but also want to take part in the modern tech world with things like NFC payments without having to trick the services with Magisk modules.

        • dejected_warp_core@lemmy.world
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          3 months ago

          Oh, we’re on the same page there. I’m complaining about that too. Things are shifting from “make the environment easier for some people” to “painstakingly chisel out an expert mode like you’re escaping from Shawshank.” and I do not like it.

      • NicolaHaskell@lemmy.world
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        3 months ago

        Heracles could shoot the eagle and break the chains, but then Prometheus might inform Zeus of the path to Troy. Titanomachy is one way of exchanging fire, but I’m human and content to hand it back and forth between each other. The pain of letting go is nuclear enough after Gaia and Uranus’s Family Vacation tore valleys through the mountains.

        • interdimensionalmeme@lemmy.ml
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          3 months ago

          Chatgpt, decode this thread

          Your message draws heavily on mythological references and metaphor to discuss the evolution of technology, particularly the ongoing shifts in computing power and platforms. Let’s break it down:

          Stolen Fire from the Gods: This likely references the myth of Prometheus stealing fire from the gods to give to humanity, symbolizing the act of bringing powerful, once-guarded knowledge or technology to the masses. In a modern context, this could relate to how advanced computing technology, once limited to powerful PCs, is now becoming more accessible.
          
          ARM Snapdragon X: ARM architecture, particularly Qualcomm's Snapdragon chips, powers many modern smartphones and tablets. The "Snapdragon X" might symbolize the next step in this evolution, suggesting that these mobile processors are becoming powerful enough to rival traditional PCs, effectively turning a smartphone into a desktop-like experience.
          
          Heracles and the Eagle: In the myth, Heracles shoots the eagle that tortures Prometheus, which could represent a disruption or liberation. Here, it might be a metaphor for technological breakthroughs that disrupt the current state of computing, potentially "freeing" users from traditional PC constraints.
          
          Prometheus informing Zeus: This could suggest the risks of such breakthroughs—informing Zeus of the path to Troy might hint at unintended consequences or revealing strategies that could lead to new challenges or conflicts, perhaps hinting at issues of control, security, or privacy in technology.
          
          Titanomachy: The Titanomachy was a war between the Titans and the Olympians. This might symbolize large-scale technological battles or shifts, like the competition between different tech giants or platforms.
          
          Human Exchange of Fire: Unlike the gods, humans share knowledge and technology with each other, passing "fire" back and forth, which could represent the collaborative and iterative nature of technological progress.
          
          Pain of Letting Go: Innovation often comes with sacrifices—letting go of older technologies or familiar ways of doing things, which can be as painful and destructive as nuclear fission, perhaps referencing the intense impact and change technology can bring, much like the mythological conflicts that reshaped the world.
          
          Gaia and Uranus's Family Vacation: This refers to the myth where Gaia (Earth) and Uranus (Sky) bore the Titans, leading to significant upheavals. This could symbolize the fundamental, tectonic shifts that technological advancements create in society, reshaping landscapes (both literal and metaphorical).
          

          In essence, your message seems to discuss the transformation of computing power, the challenges of innovation, and the profound impacts technology has on society, all wrapped in a mythological narrative.

  • Wildly_Utilize@infosec.pub
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    3 months ago

    Recently moved to graphene couldn’t be happier

    I don’t care about these apps but it will only get worse over time if not addressed. I could see things as simple as Spotify, Netflix, etc. Refusing to run

    I don’t use those services either but that’s not a future I want

  • jhdeval@lemmy.world
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    3 months ago

    Here’s my take which i have not seen in this thread. When you buy your hardware it is yours you should be allowed to do with it as you please. If you want to wipe the device and install another ROM or os you should be able to. Much like the recent fight for “right to repair” not allowing you to do what you want with your property should not be allowed. As long as the manufacturer blocks your ability to do what you want with your hardware it isn’t really your hardware.

    • gerbler@lemmy.world
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      3 months ago

      Furthermore, if the manufacturer wants to pretend that they’re selling you a perpetual license to use the hardware or whatever legal bullshit they came up with on the back of a cocktail napkin between lines of coke then they can’t advertise using the words buy, own or anything similar without explicitly indicating in the largest font that you aren’t the owner of the product.

    • lemmyvore@feddit.nl
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      3 months ago

      Unfortunately that line of thinking stops at the divide between hardware and software. You can legally make a phone manufacturer let you unlock a phone’s bootloader so you can install other software, and you can forbid them from denying hardware warranty because you installed other software. Both of which apply in the EU.

      But you can’t make them have their software support or play nice with the other software that you install.

      You also can’t force manufacturers to open up drivers if they’re under NDAs and proprietary licensing (which they often are, due to extensive cross licensing because everybody’s owning patents that can lead to everybody suing everybody if they were ever used).

      • stormeuh@lemmy.world
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        3 months ago

        To combat this I think drivers, firmware, etc. should be acknowledged as being in the same category as spare parts, manuals, repair tools, etc. They are equally as vital to being able to repair your device, and therefore should be open sourced at the latest when a manufacturer pulls support. Of course I would prefer them to be open sourced immediately, but with how software IP works currently that seems like a pipe dream, especially for devices with very complex drivers, like GPU’s.

      • interdimensionalmeme@lemmy.ml
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        3 months ago

        This is why raspberry pi can’t use a single smartphone recycled screen despite having a DSI port and a billion oled touchscreens going to landfill.

        Also, still is impossible to make Verizon unlock bootloaders

  • mlg@lemmy.world
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    3 months ago

    I hope some OEM (especially those opposed to google) picks up and develops mainline linux like Pine Phone. There are already several mobile UXs and distros with prebuilt images available as well, and it has been shown multiple times that Android apps can run fairly easily on linux. It would be a big risk, but I think it’d at least find a market success like the Steam Deck.

    Android in its current state is the same as Chromebooks. A glorified walled garden of google’s crappy choices & DRM which just so happens to run on the Linux kernel because it’s free. People downvote me for this, but I maintain that even Dalvik and the android runtime itself is an inefficient relic of 10+ years ago when mobile devices had at most 2gb of ram and a tiny low power ARM processor.

    It runs like complete crap sometimes on modern devices despite huge advancements in the underlying tech. It feels like a knockoff JVM which is already a known memory hog.

    On top of that, it sticks with single kernel releases with proprietary OEM binaries so you have devices out here running on kernels as old as 3.x because no custom ROM will be able to recompile the device modules for a newer kernel.

    It is almost hilarious to me that Moonshell, a multimedia homebrew software for the Nintendo DS (4mb of RAM), has more complete features, file compatibility, and better UI design than at least 95% of the music apps on Google Play. And it was written by literally one guy. I was honestly surprised at just how many music players lacked functionality as basic as supporting m3u playlists.

    • _bonbon_@lemm.ee
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      3 months ago

      I feel that the mobile world is ripe for disruption. There has not been excitement for new devices in a while from me and my friends who are all into tech. I remember 00s and early 10s where we used to discuss new devices all the time.

      Most of us are STUCK with Apple and Google because they have both built walled gardens. It is not just the apps, it is also moving away from open standards, moving away from even files. e.g., 10 years ago mp4 files used to hold all the metadata related to a TV Show/Movie so if you put that into a device (iTunes for example) it’ll have all the metadata, now this info is in a separate database. SMS for all it’s flaws was open, now google wants us to believe RCS is also open (LOL).

      This has led to a basic degradation in all the basics, echoing your example that it is impossible to find a decent music app.

      Even apples own music has has ACTIVELY DEGRADED. Bottom bar of apple music app was “Albums”, “Songs”, “Artists”, and “Playlists” and YOU COULD CHANGE THE BOTTOM BAR. Now it is literally “Home” == Ads, “Browse” == Ads (pls buy apple music), “Search” == Ads. and LITERALLY only 1 page called “Library” where you can access your own purchased library. Same happened with apple books.

      Android has seen similar shitty stuff, I remember being excited about actually FUN android games, tiny thief, vector, cut the rope, where is my water, etc. Now it is all ads, paywall nonsense.

      Not to mention the Today page of the Playstore ACTUALLY USED TO BE USEFULL for highlighting some apps. And is not LITERALLY ONLY F***** ADS.

      I feel/hope/pray that we have a SteveJobs 2007 type iPhone event around the corner, because everyone is ready for it.

      • ____@infosec.pub
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        3 months ago

        There really is a dearth of choices. I’ve little love for Google’s version of android, mostly for privacy reasons.

        If I could get a decent phone that ran at reasonable speed for a tolerable price, without the tracking, I’d be willing to give it a go - and endure more than a few pain points.

        • LemurEyes@lemmy.world
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          3 months ago

          Getting an “a” series pixel for a few hundred and going grapheneOS seems like a good option, no?

          • Hule@lemmy.world
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            3 months ago

            I have tried it. Pixel 6a.

            My banking app works. That’s good.

            RCS messages don’t. Could live without that.

            Merlin bird ID doesn’t. Pain point all right, but I’ll live.

            My Galaxy Watch doesn’t. Probably not GrapheneOS’ fault, and I should buy a better watch, but that will only happen when this one dies.

            Now I use a pixel 7a with stock ROM. Everything works, and if I get sick of it, I can get back to GrapheneOS and it’s quirks…

    • erwan@lemmy.ml
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      3 months ago

      The problem of being stuck on an old kernel isn’t because of Google or Android, but because of chip makers (e.g. Qualcomm) not providing drivers.

      • jabjoe@feddit.uk
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        3 months ago

        I do blame Google. It’s their platform. They could mandate upstream kernels.

        They could define auto discoverablity for their platform hardware. Then it would be possible for generic ROMs to boot on any Android phone.

    • emergencyfood@sh.itjust.works
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      3 months ago

      I hope some OEM (especially those opposed to google) picks up and develops mainline linux like Pine Phone.

      Huawei is being forced to do it. But like Android, their HarmonyOS is not 100% open-source. There’s also KaiOS, which some Nokia and Alcatel, and all Jio, devices use.

      even Dalvik and the android runtime itself is an inefficient relic of 10+ years ago when mobile devices had at most 2gb of ram and a tiny low power ARM processor.

      Both the ones I mentioned are designed to be more memory efficient. KaiOS in particular is aimed primarily at feature phones and entry-level smartphones.

    • Avid Amoeba@lemmy.ca
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      3 months ago

      Spin off the Android team into a nonprofit. I’m pretty sure OEMs would be all over that.

        • Avid Amoeba@lemmy.ca
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          3 months ago

          Actually this isn’t the pwn you think it is because funding results in favors and control. Remember the OpenAI non-profit and Microsoft? You want it to be funded by more than Alphabet. Ideally you want Alphabet’s funding share to not be the largest at all. You want government funding too.

  • SpiceDealer@lemmy.world
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    3 months ago

    I really hope the GrapheneOS team succeed. Custom ROMs are reason I’m really into tech today. Coding, FOSS, Linux, etc. all that came from rooting my dad’s HTC phone back in the day. Google shouldn’t cannibalize its children.

  • towerful@programming.dev
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    3 months ago

    The only reason I stopped using grapheneOS was because Google contactless payment didn’t work.
    Loved everything else about graphene tho

    • JCreazy@midwest.social
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      3 months ago

      I’m sure Google contactless payment works really well when the phone is dead. Or you drop your phone in a toilet or off a bridge. It’s far easier to loose a phone than a card in a wallet in your pocket. If you lose your phone, you also lose access to all your money.

      • Markus Sugarhill@discuss.tchncs.de
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        3 months ago

        Not a fan of google pay, but I gotta say, I lost way more wallets than phones in my life it’s about a 3 to 0 ratio (not counting purses I have lost before owning a phone.

      • towerful@programming.dev
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        3 months ago

        I also carry a wallet? Cause, yknow, ID and stuff.

        Phone is just way more convenient. Especially since I don’t have a limit on its contactless amount. Whereas with my card, I would have to chip&pin for anything over £40

    • tabular@lemmy.world
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      3 months ago

      I’ve never used contactless on my phone, I already had a contactless debit card. Why are you, and others, using their phones to pay?

      • Imgonnatrythis@sh.itjust.works
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        3 months ago

        Why carry a contact less card when you can pay with your phone? Have you given it a try? I find myself without a card in lots of situations. Paying by phone is incredibly convenient. Lot harder to lose than a card too.

        • Tomato666@lemmy.sdf.org
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          3 months ago

          Yes, it has an upper limit though as I discovered after cycling to the garage to pick up my car with just my phone. Triple cycling joy that day 🙄

          • Imgonnatrythis@sh.itjust.works
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            3 months ago

            Yes this depends on the linked card, the software you are using and sometimes vendor limits. Many banks have a cardless withdrawal from atm option as a backup if there happens to be atm nearby. These can have pretty high limits. There are also card generating apps like cash app where you create a cc number on the fly. In a pinch most vendors can easily split the cost of something across different cards if one is maxing out.

        • communism@lemmy.ml
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          3 months ago

          A contactless card barely takes up any space. It’s not particularly easier to lose either. I’ve never lost my card; I just keep it in my wallet, in my pocket, just like my phone is in my pocket.

          • neinhorn@lemmy.ca
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            3 months ago

            Easy with one card, but it’s a different story when you have multiple cards. Transit pass, loyalty cards from grocery stores for discounts, credit cards for cash back rewards.

          • Serinus@lemmy.world
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            3 months ago

            You know what takes up less space? Software on the phone that I’m already carrying.

            There have also been occasions where I forget my wallet but still have my phone to pay with.

        • tabular@lemmy.world
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          3 months ago

          I’d still carry my debit card if I used phone in case I lose either as I would have the other. I think I’d be more likely to notice my phone is missing but more likely to lose the phone in the first place.

          I’ve never tried it in part because I don’t trust my phone with it’s proprietary software, and I suspect there may be no open source apps to pay with.

      • nevemsenki@lemmy.world
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        3 months ago

        I can create a virtual card before every trip, use it via my phone and then cancel it after the trip, never worrying if my card got skimmed anywhere for one.

        • aquinteros@lemmy.world
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          3 months ago

          when you pay using the virtual wallet it automatically makes a mock id to the POS … at least in my country it does

        • steel_nomad@lemmy.world
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          3 months ago

          For some fucking reason there is zero option for this type of secure virtual card in my country. And I hate it. A friend got skimmed for over $1200 a couple months ago.

      • GetOffMyLan@programming.dev
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        3 months ago

        There’s no need to carry your cards if you already have your phone.

        Also, unlike your wallet, if you lose it you can track it.

      • towerful@programming.dev
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        3 months ago

        I find it super convenient.
        Also, it doesn’t have a limit. Pretty sure I bought my last car with contactless on my phone, but that was years ago.

      • aquinteros@lemmy.world
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        3 months ago

        the app hides the real numbers for the credit card and gives the POS a mock id to make the purchase. it’s harder to clone. also you need to unlock the phone for it to work it’s an extra layer of protection

      • Demdaru@lemmy.world
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        3 months ago

        Lazy.

        Just plain lazy.

        I already have my phone in hand in shops - shopping lists, reminders or even plain taking my mind off the shelves so I won’t buy unnecessary shit. Then I get to checkout and…my phone is already in hand. Just boop it and done. No need to dig out wallet from pocket and then dig out card from wallet.

      • bellafragmento@lemmy.world
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        3 months ago

        I’ve never used a contactless debit card. I already had a chip and pin debit card. Why are you, and others, using your contactless card to pay?

        • tabular@lemmy.world
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          3 months ago

          I didn’t choose, my bank gave me a contactless card when my last chip and pin card expired (the card still has chip and pin which I use when contactless fails).

        • barsoap@lemm.ee
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          3 months ago

          My Chip+PIN card has an RFID chip. Standard in Germany. Why would I tell, much less trust, google with my banking. Why would I let them skim data and/or a percentage off the transaction. Why would I choose a system with spotty acceptance, whereas I can use my girocard everywhere. It also doubles as 2nd factor for online banking.

  • jetsetdorito@lemm.ee
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    3 months ago

    the only reason I’ve wanted to be rooted in recent years is when I didn’t have hotspot on my plan and the most complete way around that was with root.

    I think I would like a degoogled Lineage/Graphene OS though

    • Kevnyon@lemmy.world
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      3 months ago

      Why is stuff like that included not included in every plan by default? As a European, I can’t even imagine paying extra for that. If I want to hotspot my data, my operator can kiss my ass and simply allow it, I’m paying for the data anyway.

      • jetsetdorito@lemm.ee
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        3 months ago

        for this case it was a plan that’s pretty discounted and also unlimited without hard throttle. they don’t want people using it on computers or game consoles probably

        • Appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          3 months ago

          As Kevnyon@lemmy.world said: @NetworkOperator: Kiss my ass. I pay your for service. You wanna restrict me, I switch my damn plan. If I use it on my phone streaming 4K stuff from my home server or watch 1GB of data over hot spot on my phone is not their business.

  • archchan@lemmy.ml
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    3 months ago

    I wish you could slap a custom rom on whatever phone you want and it Just Works™ like you can slap linux on any PC, but instead we get apps that potentially don’t work, locked bootloaders, push notifications tied to Google Play Services, and whatever else. You can put Lineage on the EU version of my phone but not the US version because fuck you. I hate how corpo centric phones have become. Like Google shouldn’t be allowed to hijack my entire screen for an ad or an app update. The entire modern definition of “sideloading” is BS, apps have access by default to things that they really don’t need, and why do I need to use ADB to purge your pre-installed bloatware ffs

    Not cool.

    • Mwas alt (prob)@thelemmy.club
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      3 months ago

      ngl a unlocked bootloader would be a security nightmare but you can put any rom on any android 8+ device they are called gsi roms

      • FinnFooted@lemmy.world
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        3 months ago

        I’m not an expert, but I had an expert explain that an unlocked boot loader is only risky if you think someone nefarious is physically able to get their hand on your phone. Is that true?

      • vividspecter@lemm.ee
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        3 months ago

        ngl a unlocked bootloader would be a security nightmare

        So, like a desktop or laptop? Sounds fine to me.

      • ozymandias117@lemmy.world
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        3 months ago

        How does one flash a ROM without unlocking the bootloader these days?

        Shouldn’t that break Android Verified Boot?

        A pure GSI image could use a Google key, I suppose, but others shouldn’t, right?

    • anon5621@lemmy.ml
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      3 months ago

      We can get same experience quite soon on laptops too when arm laptops&desktop will arrive toensd users.It gonna be lock down same as phones nowdays.

        • oo1@lemmings.world
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          3 months ago

          risc-V laptops might compete with arm in a few years - maybe not for power users, but for most simpl use , or for those who will just ssh into real computer.

    • sfxrlz@lemmy.world
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      3 months ago

      Yeah it would’ve been like that for pcs too if they weren’t around for quite longer.

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    3 months ago

    I’ve been tired of “modern” security doing nothing but annoy people. Recently, a Portuguese bank “innovated” by exclusively allowing login only on a mobile device. Yes, a clean web browser with 3FA is not “secure” enough, has to be done on a mobile device. Clearly, desktop PCs are too insecure to conduct transactions.

    Therefore, because one does not trust their mobile device. One simply spun up a clean Pixel VM, shared my data with Google and just did their work there. Peak security.

  • yamanii@lemmy.world
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    3 months ago

    We’ve started the process of talking to regulators and they’re interested.

    Oh that’s great, they aren’t actually suing since that would be a pretty big money pit, they are going straight to regulators, something can happen.

  • MentalEdge@sopuli.xyz
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    3 months ago

    Hell yes.

    It’s fucking open source, this is no different from games with intrusive anti-cheat refusing to run on Linux, except it this case it’s not even a different OS.

    It’s monopolistic and anti-user.

    • lemmyvore@feddit.nl
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      3 months ago

      Ironically, if Graphene would succeed, it would lead to a system that’s every bit as locked down as a manufacturer’s Android. GrapheneOS would also not allow you to have root etc.

      IMO Graphene wants a place at the big player table. They’re not in it for user freedoms.

      • saiarcot895@programming.dev
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        3 months ago

        A manufacturer’s Android can have special privileges for their own apps, and almost will certainly have special privileges for Google’s apps.

        Graphene by default wouldn’t give special privileges to any app, so that’s at least a plus.

        It’s true that it would be locked down, but you at least have a couple more controls over how locked down compared to a manufacturer’s OS.

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    3 months ago

    I just want to buy a Linux laptop with VoLTE and be done with the product line “smart phone”. Unfortunately there is no such device (to my knowledge) and the only device that comes close is PinePhone Pro with docking station.

    • Smokeydope@lemmy.world
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      3 months ago

      You can put a SIM card in some older thinkpad laptops with that upgrade option. Some thinkpads have the slot for a SIM card but not the internal components to use it. So make sure to do some research if that sounds promising.

      There are VOIP phone line services like JMP that give you a number and let you use your computer as a phone. I haven’t tried JMP but it always seemed cool and I respect that the developed software running JMP is open source.. The line cost 5$ a month.

      Skype also has a similar phone line service. Its not open source like JMP and is part of Microsoft. Usually thats cause for concern for FOSS nuts, but in this context its not a bad thing in some ways. Skype is two decade old mature software with enough financial backing from big M to have real tech support and a dev team to patch bugs, in theory. So probably less headaches getting it running right which is important if you want to seriously treat as a phone line. I think Skype price depends on payment plan and where you live, so not sure on exact cost.

      • mrvictory1@lemmy.world
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        3 months ago

        Neither is available in my region and Skype’s webpage does not mention making calls, only receiving them.

    • bitwolf@lemmy.one
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      3 months ago

      Agreed. I always loved the idea of the HTC Mini +.

      Put the sim in your laptop, that’s the connectivity hub. The mini phone piggybacks the LTE connection so you don’t have to pull out your laptop for simple calls, texts, navigation or music actions.