USA doesn’t control the source of the problem, which are random-ass civil wars that occur in Central America or South America.
What we do control are the legal limits of accepting immigrants. But remember that while the jobs market can likely accept more bodies, our housing market doesn’t have enough housing for a population boom.
Immigration law exists so that we can better plan jobs/housing/etc. etc. it’s a good thing in the abstract to control, no matter how sad the stories are of the people we turn away.
That being said: I’m overall supportive of more immigrants in this economy. Jobs are a major factor and it’s really 'Just Housing’s that’s a practical consideration. If we can get Congress + States to pass housing starts laws, then we can absolutely accept more immigrants in a way that’d benefit our country.
The “Northern Triangle” migrants of 2018 (El Salvador, Guatemala, and Honduras) had nothing to do with any US Policy. We had to deal with the major wave of immigrants anyway. https://sgp.fas.org/crs/row/IF11151.pdf
Today’s wave of migrants is the 2024 ongoing collapse of Venezuela. Which is everything to do with shitty Venezuelan politics, and again nothing to do with the USA.
I’m well aware of Banana Republics of decades ago. But its rather stupid to blame everything on the USA when the recent migrant wave has more to do with local issues like MS-13 (2018 era), or the handoff of Hugo Chávez to Nicolás Maduro (Venezuela).
I mean, the biggest thing indirectly being caused by the USA is maybe climate change, which has caused waves of famine, drought, hurricanes… and further disasters like Volcanic Erruptions wrecked the Northern Triangle in the 2010s. This all culminated in a temporary migrant wave under the Trump administration.
But that is not Biden’s issue today. Biden’s issue is largely one of Venezuelan in origin because of all that other crap happening totally elsewhere for completely different reasons.
I know people want to pretend that the USA had some major role to play in all of this, but its just bullshit. We had some major events about 100 years to 50 years ago. But we all know where the bulk of modern USA has been (and that’s in the Middle East, at least since 2000s).
Not as much as the 7 million emigrants who left Venezuela for other countries.
I keep coming back to the power outages of recent years in Venezuela because they’re indicative of everything that’s going wrong. Venezuela doesn’t have enough technicians who even know how to fix the energy grid, because the vast majority of them left for other countries. Yes, some of them are migrants who are entering USA, but also countries like Panama or Mexico.
When your country suffers from huge emigrant waves, especially emigrants who were statistically the smartest and most well-educated of the country… bad shit begins to happen.
What fruit company existed in Venezuela that’s related to today’s (largely) Venezuelan migrant population?
Hint: you’re talking about the wrong portion of the world if we’re focusing on today’s migrant crisis. Venezuela was oil and has a completely different set of circumstances than you might believe.
2018 was Northern Triangle that at least is somewhat related to fruit company (albeit a hundred years later, but whatever. If you want to ignore modern history so much so bet it, at least you’re somewhat correct for the Northern Triangle migrants). But 2024 is Venezuelan migrants under a completely separate issue.
My joke was primarily about previous vintages where US policy was a direct factor resulting in later waves of immigration. I wasn’t talking specifically about Venezuela or anywhere really. The later immigration appears ‘random’ only because of a superficial analysis of US policy and its consequences.
I mean you can point to like… maybe all of US policy towards Venezuela post 1998 in this same light. Sanctions, election interference, etc… This isn’t to say that the US controls the worlds destiny, but I would say peak US hegemony was maybe 2005-2010? Like we’re definitely on the other side of that, but it had its consequences.
I mean you can point to like… maybe all of US policy towards Venezuela post 1998 in this same light.
And completely ignore Hugo Chavez? Why? Hugo Chavez actually was in charge of Venezuela for the bulk of the period you’re talking about.
I know that Lemmy is filled with Marxists who want to have as favorable of a viewpoint of Communism as possible. But… uhhhh… Hugo Chavez and his successor haven’t exactly made Venezuela into a utopia.
What I do know, is decades of Hugo Chavez (and now Maduro) rule has led into Venezuela’s current predicaments. And that’s directly led, as in these are the people who actually controlled the country and built it up for what it is over the last nearly 30 years.
USA has foreign policy influence for sure, but the bulk of Venezuela’s problems are Venezuala’s alone to deal with. We aren’t responsible for the vast majority of decisions over there.
But whatever. If those migrant waves are coming to USA looking for hopes, dreams and opportunity, I’m on their side. There’s benefits to accepting the dreamers who make such a long trip. We have housing issues to deal with (and other population issues), but we can probably afford letting some of them in.
USA doesn’t control the source of the problem, which are random-ass civil wars that occur in Central America or South America.
What we do control are the legal limits of accepting immigrants. But remember that while the jobs market can likely accept more bodies, our housing market doesn’t have enough housing for a population boom.
Immigration law exists so that we can better plan jobs/housing/etc. etc. it’s a good thing in the abstract to control, no matter how sad the stories are of the people we turn away.
That being said: I’m overall supportive of more immigrants in this economy. Jobs are a major factor and it’s really 'Just Housing’s that’s a practical consideration. If we can get Congress + States to pass housing starts laws, then we can absolutely accept more immigrants in a way that’d benefit our country.
Interesting, if largely incorrect opinion.
The “Northern Triangle” migrants of 2018 (El Salvador, Guatemala, and Honduras) had nothing to do with any US Policy. We had to deal with the major wave of immigrants anyway. https://sgp.fas.org/crs/row/IF11151.pdf
Today’s wave of migrants is the 2024 ongoing collapse of Venezuela. Which is everything to do with shitty Venezuelan politics, and again nothing to do with the USA.
I’m well aware of Banana Republics of decades ago. But its rather stupid to blame everything on the USA when the recent migrant wave has more to do with local issues like MS-13 (2018 era), or the handoff of Hugo Chávez to Nicolás Maduro (Venezuela).
I mean, how much of the power of gangs in US, Mexico, CA, SA, is a direct result of US drug policy?
I mean, the biggest thing indirectly being caused by the USA is maybe climate change, which has caused waves of famine, drought, hurricanes… and further disasters like Volcanic Erruptions wrecked the Northern Triangle in the 2010s. This all culminated in a temporary migrant wave under the Trump administration.
But that is not Biden’s issue today. Biden’s issue is largely one of Venezuelan in origin because of all that other crap happening totally elsewhere for completely different reasons.
I know people want to pretend that the USA had some major role to play in all of this, but its just bullshit. We had some major events about 100 years to 50 years ago. But we all know where the bulk of modern USA has been (and that’s in the Middle East, at least since 2000s).
Do you think the sanctions had some impact?
Not as much as the 7 million emigrants who left Venezuela for other countries.
I keep coming back to the power outages of recent years in Venezuela because they’re indicative of everything that’s going wrong. Venezuela doesn’t have enough technicians who even know how to fix the energy grid, because the vast majority of them left for other countries. Yes, some of them are migrants who are entering USA, but also countries like Panama or Mexico.
When your country suffers from huge emigrant waves, especially emigrants who were statistically the smartest and most well-educated of the country… bad shit begins to happen.
Why do you think they left?
When your country supports multiple international coups because of a fruit company.
#SoRandomLOL
What fruit company existed in Venezuela that’s related to today’s (largely) Venezuelan migrant population?
Hint: you’re talking about the wrong portion of the world if we’re focusing on today’s migrant crisis. Venezuela was oil and has a completely different set of circumstances than you might believe.
2018 was Northern Triangle that at least is somewhat related to fruit company (albeit a hundred years later, but whatever. If you want to ignore modern history so much so bet it, at least you’re somewhat correct for the Northern Triangle migrants). But 2024 is Venezuelan migrants under a completely separate issue.
My joke was primarily about previous vintages where US policy was a direct factor resulting in later waves of immigration. I wasn’t talking specifically about Venezuela or anywhere really. The later immigration appears ‘random’ only because of a superficial analysis of US policy and its consequences.
I mean you can point to like… maybe all of US policy towards Venezuela post 1998 in this same light. Sanctions, election interference, etc… This isn’t to say that the US controls the worlds destiny, but I would say peak US hegemony was maybe 2005-2010? Like we’re definitely on the other side of that, but it had its consequences.
And completely ignore Hugo Chavez? Why? Hugo Chavez actually was in charge of Venezuela for the bulk of the period you’re talking about.
I know that Lemmy is filled with Marxists who want to have as favorable of a viewpoint of Communism as possible. But… uhhhh… Hugo Chavez and his successor haven’t exactly made Venezuela into a utopia.
What I do know, is decades of Hugo Chavez (and now Maduro) rule has led into Venezuela’s current predicaments. And that’s directly led, as in these are the people who actually controlled the country and built it up for what it is over the last nearly 30 years.
USA has foreign policy influence for sure, but the bulk of Venezuela’s problems are Venezuala’s alone to deal with. We aren’t responsible for the vast majority of decisions over there.
But whatever. If those migrant waves are coming to USA looking for hopes, dreams and opportunity, I’m on their side. There’s benefits to accepting the dreamers who make such a long trip. We have housing issues to deal with (and other population issues), but we can probably afford letting some of them in.
It didnt work for the joke.