If this confuses you then you are extremely misinformed and operating on the ignorant notion that “radical Islamist” = “terrorist”. The Taliban never embraced terrorism as a tactic. Unless you’re so brainwashed that you think IEDs are terrorism. Islamic terrorism has almost exclusively been the domain of Wahhabists like Al-Queada and Islamic State
The Taliban is currently fighting Islamic State Khorasan Province, which is largely constituted of former collaborators of the coalition government. Everyone in the region would much rather have the Taliban as a neighbor than those genocidal freaks.
Exactly. And you aren’t a terrorist after you win your country back. That’s like the British partnering with America to fight terrorism being ironic because of George Washington. Different era is different era. Whether people like it or not the Taliban run an actual government.
I’m operating on the not so ignorant notion than the Taliban supported Al-Qaeda and its ways for decades, becoming a safe haven for Bin Laden and other terrorists.
They had no issues with terrorism and supported the use of terrorism against the infidels.
Being also targeted by other islamist terrorists doesn’t clean their history with support of international terrorism.
Firstly they never said that they would turn him to the US. They said that they would turn him to a third country. And only if irrefutable evidence of his guilt were to be provided. And they said that the only would turn Bin Laden, not any other AlQaeda members.
Algo this happened after they US started the bombings. Before the US attacked the Talibans refused to even talk about it. And they would probably just tried to make time to start a truce until Bin Laden left the country.
So it was actually a fake proposal and only after their previous refusal started the bombings on Afghanistan.
Wakil Ahmad Muttawakil, Taliban’s last foreign minister, told Al Jazeera in an exclusive interview that his government had made several proposals to the United States to present the al-Qaeda leader, considered the mastermind of the 2001 attacks, for trial for his involvement in plots targeting US facilities during the 1990s.
…
Robert Grenier, the CIA station chief in Pakistan at the time of 9/11, confirmed that such proposals had been made to US officials.
Grenier said the US considered the offers to bring in Bin Laden to trial a “ploy”.
…
Subsequent to the 1998 US embassy bombings in Kenya and Tanzania, as US pressure grew, the Taliban insisted on a procedure under the supervision of OIC because it considered it a “neutral international organisation”.
The OIC is a Saudi Arabia-based organisation representing 56 Muslim nations. Al Jazeera contacted the OIC, but nobody was available for comment.
…
Muttawakil, who now lives in Kabul and advises an Islamic educational foundation, reportedly tried to negotiate a ceasefire in the days after the US launched operations in the country in 2001 by seeking to convince Mullah Omar, the Taliban leader, to part ways with bin Laden.
He was taken into US custody in the notorious Bagram prison early in 2002. After months of detention, he was released under house arrest in Kandahar and then moved to Kabul.
So hey, in fairness, maybe the guy we illegally tortured for years at Bagram may have stretched the truth. But it appears the US CIA station chief simply didn’t trust the Taliban in the run up to 9/11 and decided it wasn’t worth the trouble to negotiate.
they already do a fantastic job of “terrorising” their own local populace, burning food aid, banning forms of art (paintings, photography, music and what not), banning girls from most social and work life, getting money from drugs, kidnapping and extortion.
We can discuss the formal definition of terrorism for pages but I am pretty convinced the meme has a valid point. Sure it is also a government now, so superficially it might make sense to partner with a government to fight local terrorism but when the government is the main source of domestic terrorism, then yea this meme is still funny.
And if they hadn’t secured some deal
with the USA and were not in power right now, I doubt they would forever shy away from suicide bombing the fuck out of that place.
Finally anyone who has a grain’s worth of intuition about the world’s politics would know that what Russia calls “a partnership against terrorism” is a cover up for continuing to meddle in affairs of middle eastern countries like many other major players (USA or NATO would call it bringing down dictators for instance). Though this is admittedly separate from what is being discussed here, I was compelled to make this point too.
Finally anyone who has a grain’s worth of intuition about the world’s politics would know that what Russia calls “a partnership against terrorism” is a cover up for continuing to meddle in affairs of middle eastern countries
See that’s just it. You’re operating off you’re preconceived notions instead of the facts on the ground. The fact is the ISKP is operating in northern Afghanistan and is a threat to literally everyone in the region. When you put that into perspective, the meme is not funny and is massively ignorant. Despite all the injustices the Taliban commits, the Islamic State is far far worse. They’re the ones actively suicide bombing Hazari women and the only ones who can stop them are, regrettably the Taliban. Thats a grim and morbid reality, because the Taliban is racist as hell against Hazari’s but they aren’t genocidal like the Islamic State. We’d both like to seem some progressive secular democracy in the region but we spent two decades pissing any chances of that away.
Oh no doubt that ISIS will be an even more horrible hell for the region than even the Taliban. But also what Taliban commits there is beyond the word injustice it is violation of every known human rights and is a cultural genocide. Their incompetence will probably end up killing millions in the region.
I understand that the meme might be operating from a much more simplistic view of ISIS = terrorist = Taliban but nevertheless it is the involvement of the major world powers in the affairs of these regions which enable these groups. Lets not forget that ISIS’ emergence was sped and perhaps even mostly born out by the USA’s involvement in the region and USA’s justification was also fighting terrorism. In the end Russia fighting terrorism in the region might even be the funnier point in this meme.
It is funny that involvement in Afghanistan has been passed back and forth between the US an Russia for half a century. Before that it was the UK and Russia. But thats not what the meme is about. The meme revels in its own ignorance of the situation.
Yes, ISKP is a direct consequence of US meddling in the region. Many of it’s members were our collaborators. But I think you’re being unfair here if you’re going to equate Russia trying to stabilize the Taliban’s rule with America’s failure to replace it. Its possible that Russia’s involvement can escalate like it did in the 80s but I doubt that’ll happen. That would be like the America deciding to send troops to Vietnam again.
Pull your head out of your ass. Assaulting protestors is something every government does, legitimate or not. How many countries can you name that haven’t assaulted protestors? Even Jefferson’s “watering the tree of liberty” quote is about murdering protestors.
Now if you actually read into the article you posted, the Hazari women were protesting the Taliban’s lack of response to an actual terrorist suicide bombing by ISKP. The Islamic State has been aggressively massacring Hazari’s ever since the US left. That said, its not like the Taliban are the friends of Hazari’s, they just aren’t massacring them.
You’re seriously fucking pathetic. How utterly goddamn evil do you have to be to put this much effort into defending the literal fucking taliban? You like women having no rights?
All I’m doing is pointing out the a the Islamic State is strictly worse than the Taliban and its good that the Taliban are fighting them. I’d prefer it’d be someone other than the Taliban but that doesn’t change the facts.
During the US occupation, the Taliban absolutely did attack civilian targets to further political goals. They attacked everything from restaurants to embassies to a university.
There’s an old joke about the Anti-American Terrorist and the Pro-American Freedom Fighter being the same dude pointed in different directions. The Taliban, being once again in control of the Afghani government, isn’t going to see itself as a “terrorist organization” any more than the Philadelphia PD bombing your house would.
The Taliban is currently fighting Islamic State Khorasan Province, which is largely constituted of former collaborators of the coalition government.
By turns. I’m sure that, while folks on CNN clutch their pearls and cry to the heavens about the horrors perpetuated by the Taliban on women, LGBTQ groups, minority religions, cough drug traffickers cough, and American business interests in the region, we’re going to hear very little about the politics of this particular incarnation of the Islamic State.
I said “Islamic terrorism is almost exclusively the domain of wahhabi’s” and you’re argueing, “what if the CIA funded the wahhabi’s?” as though that contradicts my point.
I don’t know what the disagreement is. Its always the wahhabi’s executing the actual terrorism. If you want to lump in their sponsors, like is said, “go off”. But you’re framing it like I’m ignorant of that which I’m not.
If this confuses you then you are extremely misinformed and operating on the ignorant notion that “radical Islamist” = “terrorist”. The Taliban never embraced terrorism as a tactic. Unless you’re so brainwashed that you think IEDs are terrorism. Islamic terrorism has almost exclusively been the domain of Wahhabists like Al-Queada and Islamic State
The Taliban is currently fighting Islamic State Khorasan Province, which is largely constituted of former collaborators of the coalition government. Everyone in the region would much rather have the Taliban as a neighbor than those genocidal freaks.
It’s that Bush Era understanding of “terrorism”
If they’re brown and wear a turban or headscarf. Terrorist. Done and dusted. Time for a drone strike.
Exactly. And you aren’t a terrorist after you win your country back. That’s like the British partnering with America to fight terrorism being ironic because of George Washington. Different era is different era. Whether people like it or not the Taliban run an actual government.
I’m operating on the not so ignorant notion than the Taliban supported Al-Qaeda and its ways for decades, becoming a safe haven for Bin Laden and other terrorists.
They had no issues with terrorism and supported the use of terrorism against the infidels.
Being also targeted by other islamist terrorists doesn’t clean their history with support of international terrorism.
The Taliban never support Wahhabism and only tolerated Al-Queada. They offered to hand him over to us immediately after 9/11 and we refused.
Not really.
Firstly they never said that they would turn him to the US. They said that they would turn him to a third country. And only if irrefutable evidence of his guilt were to be provided. And they said that the only would turn Bin Laden, not any other AlQaeda members.
Algo this happened after they US started the bombings. Before the US attacked the Talibans refused to even talk about it. And they would probably just tried to make time to start a truce until Bin Laden left the country.
So it was actually a fake proposal and only after their previous refusal started the bombings on Afghanistan.
The Taliban government in Afghanistan offered to present Osama bin Laden for a trial long before the attacks of September 11, 2001, but the US government showed no interest, according to a senior aide to the Taliban leader, Mullah Omar.
…
…
…
So hey, in fairness, maybe the guy we illegally tortured for years at Bagram may have stretched the truth. But it appears the US CIA station chief simply didn’t trust the Taliban in the run up to 9/11 and decided it wasn’t worth the trouble to negotiate.
As said by Taliban minister.
Take its veracity with a grain of salt.
I guess I should trust the CIA more?
You should trust information that has verificable independent source.
It’s not like in order not to like CIA you have to become a Taliban sympathizer.
they already do a fantastic job of “terrorising” their own local populace, burning food aid, banning forms of art (paintings, photography, music and what not), banning girls from most social and work life, getting money from drugs, kidnapping and extortion.
We can discuss the formal definition of terrorism for pages but I am pretty convinced the meme has a valid point. Sure it is also a government now, so superficially it might make sense to partner with a government to fight local terrorism but when the government is the main source of domestic terrorism, then yea this meme is still funny.
And if they hadn’t secured some deal with the USA and were not in power right now, I doubt they would forever shy away from suicide bombing the fuck out of that place.
Finally anyone who has a grain’s worth of intuition about the world’s politics would know that what Russia calls “a partnership against terrorism” is a cover up for continuing to meddle in affairs of middle eastern countries like many other major players (USA or NATO would call it bringing down dictators for instance). Though this is admittedly separate from what is being discussed here, I was compelled to make this point too.
See that’s just it. You’re operating off you’re preconceived notions instead of the facts on the ground. The fact is the ISKP is operating in northern Afghanistan and is a threat to literally everyone in the region. When you put that into perspective, the meme is not funny and is massively ignorant. Despite all the injustices the Taliban commits, the Islamic State is far far worse. They’re the ones actively suicide bombing Hazari women and the only ones who can stop them are, regrettably the Taliban. Thats a grim and morbid reality, because the Taliban is racist as hell against Hazari’s but they aren’t genocidal like the Islamic State. We’d both like to seem some progressive secular democracy in the region but we spent two decades pissing any chances of that away.
Oh no doubt that ISIS will be an even more horrible hell for the region than even the Taliban. But also what Taliban commits there is beyond the word injustice it is violation of every known human rights and is a cultural genocide. Their incompetence will probably end up killing millions in the region.
I understand that the meme might be operating from a much more simplistic view of ISIS = terrorist = Taliban but nevertheless it is the involvement of the major world powers in the affairs of these regions which enable these groups. Lets not forget that ISIS’ emergence was sped and perhaps even mostly born out by the USA’s involvement in the region and USA’s justification was also fighting terrorism. In the end Russia fighting terrorism in the region might even be the funnier point in this meme.
It is funny that involvement in Afghanistan has been passed back and forth between the US an Russia for half a century. Before that it was the UK and Russia. But thats not what the meme is about. The meme revels in its own ignorance of the situation.
Yes, ISKP is a direct consequence of US meddling in the region. Many of it’s members were our collaborators. But I think you’re being unfair here if you’re going to equate Russia trying to stabilize the Taliban’s rule with America’s failure to replace it. Its possible that Russia’s involvement can escalate like it did in the 80s but I doubt that’ll happen. That would be like the America deciding to send troops to Vietnam again.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/10/3/afghan-women-protest-against-recent-attack-on-kabul-school
Literally attacked for protesting, the use of violence for political means by a illegitimate government…
Pull your head out of your ass. Assaulting protestors is something every government does, legitimate or not. How many countries can you name that haven’t assaulted protestors? Even Jefferson’s “watering the tree of liberty” quote is about murdering protestors.
Now if you actually read into the article you posted, the Hazari women were protesting the Taliban’s lack of response to an actual terrorist suicide bombing by ISKP. The Islamic State has been aggressively massacring Hazari’s ever since the US left. That said, its not like the Taliban are the friends of Hazari’s, they just aren’t massacring them.
You’re seriously fucking pathetic. How utterly goddamn evil do you have to be to put this much effort into defending the literal fucking taliban? You like women having no rights?
All I’m doing is pointing out the a the Islamic State is strictly worse than the Taliban and its good that the Taliban are fighting them. I’d prefer it’d be someone other than the Taliban but that doesn’t change the facts.
Say the taliban is bad. Just say they’re bad, unqualified, no ifs ands or buts. Just say the taliban is bad, can you do that?
During the US occupation, the Taliban absolutely did attack civilian targets to further political goals. They attacked everything from restaurants to embassies to a university.
And, you know… some other guys…
Also, uh… some people closer to home
And lest they be forgotten…
There’s an old joke about the Anti-American Terrorist and the Pro-American Freedom Fighter being the same dude pointed in different directions. The Taliban, being once again in control of the Afghani government, isn’t going to see itself as a “terrorist organization” any more than the Philadelphia PD bombing your house would.
The Moderate Rebels! Easy to forget that ISIS used to be an ally of
By turns. I’m sure that, while folks on CNN clutch their pearls and cry to the heavens about the horrors perpetuated by the Taliban on women, LGBTQ groups, minority religions, cough drug traffickers cough, and American business interests in the region, we’re going to hear very little about the politics of this particular incarnation of the Islamic State.
I specified “Islamic terrorists” for a reason but go off.
If the CIA sends aid to the Islamic State, what do we call that?
I said “Islamic terrorism is almost exclusively the domain of wahhabi’s” and you’re argueing, “what if the CIA funded the wahhabi’s?” as though that contradicts my point.
I don’t know what the disagreement is. Its always the wahhabi’s executing the actual terrorism. If you want to lump in their sponsors, like is said, “go off”. But you’re framing it like I’m ignorant of that which I’m not.
Is the CIA Wahhabist?
No. And no patience for the semantic argument you’re wasting my time with when we both agree on the material reality
I don’t think I’d call arming a terrorist group sementics
But I thought anything I don’t like is terrorism and they only hate us for our freedoms?
Joking aside, I find it hard to debate someone seriously when they still greedily lap up horseshit like that.