Funny if true.

  • delirious_owl@discuss.online
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    8 months ago

    Why would State Capitalists allow discussions about actual communism? God forbid he people get it into their head to form trade unions…

    • GarbageShoot [he/him]@hexbear.net
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      8 months ago

      I can’t quite tell if this is a parody, the trade union bit makes it seem sincere, but the self-importance to think that lemmy is too left for China to allow is just amazing.

      • delirious_owl@discuss.online
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        8 months ago

        What? I stand with the Chinese people against their oppressors. Criticism of an oppressive State is not criticism of its victims.

        • CloutAtlas [he/him]@hexbear.net
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          8 months ago

          …how often do you interact with Chinese people? Whenever I go back home to Wuhan I don’t really see much oppression happening.

        • axont [she/her, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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          8 months ago

          almost no one in China feels that their state is an oppressive force, they feel the opposite. The government has more than a 90% approval rating. The overwhelming majority of Chinese people view their society as legitimate and socialist. If you had any interest in democracy at all you’d respect this perspective instead of imposing your own

            • LesbianLiberty [she/her]@hexbear.net
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              8 months ago

              She’s literally correct; studies from even anti-Chinese partisan sources can’t help but find that satisfaction with the government is overwhelming. While you treat anti-imperialist movements like this sitting from your home in the imperial core, you’re not a revolutionary or helping anybody build towards anything better, you’re an active hindrance. Feel free to imbibe the actual opinions of people in China so you can understand the conditions there and not just your cracker conditioning. It’s not perfect, but overthrow would be far; far worse.

        • Amerikan Pharaoh@lemmygrad.ml
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          8 months ago

          What? I stand with the Chinese people against their oppressors. Criticism of an oppressive State is not criticism of its victims.

          Said the anglo, eagerly parroting his three-letter-agency masters with his hands on his pearls and a breathless huff to his diction. I have never seen such eager catamites for fuckin genociders in my life; is this what living in Weimar Germany was like?

    • Socsa@sh.itjust.works
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      8 months ago

      To be fair, .ml bans you pretty quickly for discussing anything outside of a pretty narrow stripe of Marxist Leninist orthodoxy as well.

      • octopus_ink@lemmy.ml
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        8 months ago

        I don’t consider myself a Marxist, Leninist, or communist of any stripe and haven’t had a problem so far. I’m far enough left that I refuse to call myself a liberal, but I suspect the folks who consider themselves Marxists probably think I’m too far right to self-identify as a leftist. (Although I do.)

        Shitload of downvotes a time or two, but that’s about it. I just wanted to be on a Lemmy instance that was honoring the fedipact, and preferred it to have an instance ethos to the left of mine rather than to the right of it.

        I like it here.

          • Amerikan Pharaoh@lemmygrad.ml
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            8 months ago

            You believe in “russian disinformation assets”, like hell you are lmfao. Y’know what, let’s go for a walk.

            Russia may try, but it’ll never erase Ukraine nor the fact Ukraine made Russia.

            No, they’re not. Populism as a whole is a horrible political strategy which benefits only a few members of the political class.

            Because it takes away the puppet Russia has been building and nurturing this whole time.

            There’s an easy way to end this war: either kill Putin or have Putin resign.

            If by “core” you mean “civilized world”, yes.

            Your words; not mine. You are no Marxist. You are a western chauvinist, a genocidal settler, and so terminally, neoliberally treat-brained that I expect you to keel over after you’ve been fed chocolate.

            What a trail of receipts, my boi. There’s at least one of you every season.

            • octopus_ink@lemmy.ml
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              8 months ago

              Honest question from a non-communist, based on your reply here. Does one need to support Putin to be a Marxist?

              • davel [he/him]@lemmy.ml
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                8 months ago

                In a word, no. In a few more words, support for Russia (not Putin, as historical materialists don’t subscribe to great man theory) is only a partial, temporary, tactical one, in the context of imperialist liberation. Russia is still a capitalist state, though, so it’s a two stage strategy: first liberate colonized bourgeois states from colonizer states, and second revolution within those liberated bourgeois states.

                Russia is an interesting case: it has already liberated itself from the post-Soviet “shock therapy” neocolonizers. This occurred during Putin’s administration, which is why he is especially hated by the US. So now the support for Russia is in the context of keeping the colonizers from recolonizing it, and supporting Russia to the extent that it helps other states liberate themselves. But Russia isn’t trying to “liberate” Ukraine, at least not all of Ukraine. It’s trying to resolve the genocidal attacks on the people of the Donbas, and it’s trying to resolve the imperialist military expansion at its border.

              • Amerikan Pharaoh@lemmygrad.ml
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                8 months ago

                Hardly; I’ve never known actual communists who uncritically supported that man. It’s always critical support, at best– which is to say, he may do some things correct, but he’s still an absolute affront to what came before, and honestly a problem Amerika themselves created. Advocating for wanting to kill a man in the midst of denazifying a NATO-backed neighbor, out of self-defense from NATO encirclement though; that’s beyond the pale, as is everything else I’ve found regarding that member’s carriage.

                • octopus_ink@lemmy.ml
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                  8 months ago

                  Fair enough. I don’t believe this is what is happening (“denazifying a NATO-backed neighbor”) and haven’t seen a source suggesting it is that doesn’t itself look like propaganda, but I’m also OK agreeing to disagree on that. I asked only because without further context it seemed like not supporting Putin was a big component of your comment.

                  I understand your position now, even if we disagree on Putin also.

                  • Amerikan Pharaoh@lemmygrad.ml
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                    8 months ago

                    Yeah no, my support of Putin is critical at best, and only because Ukraine is the last piece of the puzzle NATO needs to assemble to have Russia at checkmate gunpoint. Allowing the Five-Eyed Empire to genocide more innocent civilians is not how we solve the Putin problem.

                    Our problem here is, we have a guy here who stands against the voice of the people, decrying populism as “a horrible idea” like all our favorite Amerikan neoliberals; replaces “the imperial core” with ‘the civilized world’ in casual parlance, indicating a virulent and toxic western chauvinism at best and outright white supremacy at worst; an uncritical gamer too, so I’m erring more toward the latter than the former, I could go on til Nimrod’s release day honestly.

              • Aria@lemmygrad.ml
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                8 months ago

                You don’t need to support Putin to be a Marxist, him and Russia are deserving of a lot of criticism, but it’s maybe a little suspicious if someone sees everything happening geopolitically right now and consistently chooses to focus their anger towards Russia.

                To be honest when I read Supavillain’s quotes my first reaction was also 'So they don’t like Russia, who cares?", Ukrainian national identify exists, if Russia annexed western Ukraine they wouldn’t be able to erase it. Non-principled populist politicians do always suck. And Russia would’ve loved (I assume this is about) Donetsk PR to have been their puppet.

                But then those last two quotes are pretty bad. Killing Putin or even having Putin do a 180 wouldn’t change anything. He’d just be replaced. And the poor countries are no less civilised.

                • octopus_ink@lemmy.ml
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                  8 months ago

                  But then those last two quotes are pretty bad. Killing Putin or even having Putin do a 180 wouldn’t change anything.

                  Assassination is never something I advocate, but there are a few world leaders who I would not complain about if natural causes could catch up to them sometime soon.

                  Thanks for the additional info and feedback. 🙂

        • Echo Dot@feddit.uk
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          8 months ago

          So you are saying that you ban anyone that wants a intelligent conversation and mildly disagrees with you?

          Fortunately logic and reality are not really things that dictatorships really all that interested in. So I guess carry on.

            • Amerikan Pharaoh@lemmygrad.ml
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              8 months ago

              It’s debatelord behavior. Performance of colonizer norms mores (got the term wrong) for the adulation of rest of the genocidal settler masses at the expense of every subject-of-empire whose neck bears that invader’s bootprint.

            • Socsa@sh.itjust.works
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              8 months ago

              I can just look at the modlog and tell that conversations about oppression are only allowed in one direction

                • Socsa@sh.itjust.works
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                  8 months ago

                  Meh, I’m not the one aggressively trying to shut down any conversation which doesn’t go hard enough on ML fan service. I actually came to .ml at first hoping to find a more academically oriented leftist community which was willing to engage with topics other than “let’s relitigate the cold war.”

                  You are obviously free to dismiss any criticism of this community as “NATO chauvinist propaganda” or whatever, just as im free to roll my eyes and say that the world deserves a better class of socialist.

                  • Amerikan Pharaoh@lemmygrad.ml
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                    8 months ago

                    just as im free to roll my eyes and say that the world deserves a better class of socialist.

                    Pfft, like you?

                    Mmmh, delicious; forum snitch knishes

                    just as im free to roll my eyes and say that the world deserves a better class of socialist.

      • Buelldozer@lemmy.today
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        8 months ago

        I don’t think that’s a fair criticizm. After all my dumb ass hasn’t been banned (so far).