• Cowbee [he/him]@lemmy.ml
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    5 months ago

    Yes, Engels does a pretty good job of explaining why “authouritarian” complaints are usually explained purely by vibes.

    • Prunebutt@slrpnk.net
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      5 months ago

      He mostly explained how he actually didn’t really have a proper grasp of what authority actually means. He conflated them with a lot of things without actually making sense. I’m surprised why “On authority” is so widely known.

          • OurToothbrush@lemmy.ml
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            5 months ago

            Hey, I stepped into an anarchist space to read the most popular critique of on authority, you can step into a non-sectarian left space to read a critique of the critique.

      • Cowbee [he/him]@lemmy.ml
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        5 months ago

        He has a great grasp on how often Anarchists operate mainly on vibes, even if in practice when they get into power they still implement some form of authoritarianism, such as the labor camps in Revolutionary Catalonia.

        • Prunebutt@slrpnk.net
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          5 months ago

          Sorry, but claiming that just shows that someone didn’t engage at all with anarchist theory.

          • Cowbee [he/him]@lemmy.ml
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            5 months ago

            I have, I used to lean more Anarchist, until I read more Marxist theory. I am aware of Anarchist principles of horizontal organization, and I think they are quite beautiful, but I am also aware that Anarchist critique of Marxism falls flat almost all of the time.

            • Prunebutt@slrpnk.net
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              5 months ago

              What kind of Marxism? Marx’s Marxism, or that body of theory by his followers that even Marx denounced, i.e. ML, MLM, etc.

              Anarchist’s analysis of power has been spot-on ever since Bakunin predicted the bureaucratic dictatorship that Russia became under the Bolsheviki.

              • Cowbee [he/him]@lemmy.ml
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                5 months ago

                How exactly would Marx denounce Lenin? Or Mao? That’s a supremely goofy statement.

                Bakunin was not correct in analyzing power. If saying “states have issues” counts as being “correct” enough to only approve a system that has only ever lasted a few years at a time, you’re intentionally missing the forest for the trees. The USSR was by no means perfect, but it wad history’s first true Socialist state and managed to prove that Socialism does work.

                • Prunebutt@slrpnk.net
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                  5 months ago

                  While he didn’t specifically denounce Lenin or Mao, he himself exclaimed once, reacting to self-appointed Marxists: “All I know is that I’m not a marxist.” That’s what I was referencing.

                  Are you sure you read anarchist theory? Bakunin didn’t claim that states “had issues”. Here’s a quote, for example:

                  That is because no state, not even the most republican and democratic, not even the pseudo-popular state contemplated by Marx, in essence represents anything but government of the masses from above downward, by an educated and thereby privileged minority which supposedly understands the real interests of the people better than the people themselves.

                  The USSR was a state-capitalist state, where the bourgeoisy was replaced with bureaucrats - as predicted by Bakunin. If it were truly socialist, it wouldn’t have taken away power from the soviets and Lenin wouldn’t have abolished unions in favour of his high-modernist ideas.

                  • Cowbee [he/him]@lemmy.ml
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                    5 months ago

                    That’s a bit ridiculous, with respect to the Marx claim. Marx was attacking Dogmatism, not his own ideas. Post-Marx’s death, people following his ideas understandably called themselves Marxists not because they worshipped Marx, but because they were working with his ideas!

                    As for Bakunin, he’s a pure idealist here. His rejection of the state is based on the notion that the elected cannot represent the will of the people because they are not the people. This, of course, is wrong, as it assumes the people do not want someone managing higher-order decisions! Letting vast improvements in material conditions be held back because workers had representatives is why Anarchism has failed to last very long.

                    As for the USSR being “State Capitalist,” that referred to the NEP. Judging Leftist movements by their structure as compared to perfect Marxism in a vacuum without considering the historical context is deeply silly idealism. You would have to do some heavy justification for why you believe a worker state to form a new class that isn’t just vibes.

                  • Sodium_nitride@lemmygrad.ml
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                    5 months ago

                    You are wrong on the factual level.

                    The role of money in soviet society was always subordinate to material production. Money was necessary only due to the technical limitations of planning a vast economy without sufficient computing power. The sphere of commodity exchange was supressed as much as possible. Much of the soviet citizen’s consumption was either heavily subsidised or free. This went all the way from food, transportation to even fancy entertainment (like spas and theatres). In fact, the heavy distortion of prices in soviet society is often cited as a reason for its eventual collapse.

                    Therefore, calling the soviet union state capitalist is absurd. Capitalism requires a dominant bourgeois class, the operation of the law of value and the anarchy of production. None of these elements were present in the soviet union.

          • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.ml
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            5 months ago

            The problem with anarchist theory is that it demonstrably doesn’t work. A theory that can’t be put into practice is not worth the paper its written on.