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Were waiting for the next wave of $25k EV since there is no hope that the tariffs on the only county with enough scale to build affordable EV is on a 100% tariff.
Too expensive. Not owner repairable. Too much unnecessary tech baked in.
There’s a path forward for EV’s, but I don’t think the current philosophy is it.
Dacia spring has no unnecessary tech 😍 and is cheap
But, it is small 😂🤷🏻♀️ big enough for my family, at least.
Just hope you’re never involved in an accident, Dacias (both EV and ICE) have abysmal safety ratings.
Coming to the US never
😂 I don’t plan to go to US anytime soon
Me neither, but this is an article about Americans.
True that…
It definitely has nothing to do with the outrageous starting price range.
Yup, American manufacturers are still treating EVs as if they’re this exotic new toy for upper-middle class people or silicon valley douche bros, rather than getting onboard with the concept if them just being a utilitarian thing that needs to be marketed to normal people.
Give me the EV equivalent of the Geo Metro and I’ll buy it in a heart beat. I’m not taking out a second mortgage for a car that tries to drive itself and whatever dumb gimmicks they come up with, but I will 100% buy an affordable, practical EV designed with efficiency and economy in mind.
2026 Bolt could change that. Hopefully the ultium system is fixed up by then. Also base model Volvo EX30s are going to come from Belgium to maintain their mid 30’s price point.
What we really need is the government to make a grant or low interest loan available to anyone with a parking lot and an electrical hookup to put in fast chargers. Everything from libraries to gas stations.
I’m with you. I ended up just buying a used gas vehicle because the others are just too expensive.
It is not a defense of the manufacturers, but EVs are still damn expensive to make. And they are completely at fault for that too, because everyone except Tesla dragged their feet about making the EV transition.
Right, and worse. After years of dragging their feet, broadcasting FUD to discourage potential customers, they try to all release premium priced cars at once to now uncertain customers. And priced well above their initial announcements. Of course their naive predictions of ridiculous growth didn’t pan out. They’re not just guilty of dragging their feet, but screwing up when they finally tried it.
And what the heck is wrong with GM? The second biggest American seller of EVs, and they drop what has been working, to make the same mistake as everyone else. And wtf were they thinking about piling on with dropping CarPlay and claiming they can do better: wtf, we e seen what you can do, that’s why everyone wants CarPlay. Oh, and I’m sure all this talk about subscriptions is really going to bring in the buyers
The answer to questions like these is always money.
Money for infrastructure and money to buy the thing.
Because if you live in an apartment your only option for charging is to go to a charging location. You can’t just plug it in overnight.
Which I can see as a big hurdle for a lot of people.
What percentage of people live in apartments?
Surely those people should be taking public transport anyway not buying a car when they live downtown.
You realize not all apartments are located in big cities? Plenty of people live in small towns with no or shitty public transportation.
The better question here is what percentage of likely EV buyers live in apartments. People that would be a potential customer if it weren’t for living in an apartment.
Depends what the point is. If we want to sell EVs for some goal of selling EVs that fine I guess. But it still goes back to the point of you start with the easiest 80% first.
But if we want to improve everyone’s life on this planet and the planet itself. Trying to convince people who shouldn’t own a car to buy an EV is very poor planning. It just so short sighted and consumerist for the sake of consumerism.
An enormous percentage, especially in the current housing market, however…
Many (most?) American cities have wildly inadequate public transit and are prone to sprawl. Many Americans live in apartments, but are a multiple mile walk from their grocery store. If there’s any public transit at all it’s probably an infrequent and unreliable bus line that may not go anywhere near their home to begin with. They live in apartments, but are not anywhere near ‘downtown’.
These are problems that need to be solved, and quickly, but public transit is best grown with a city, which didn’t happen. Inserting a subway after the fact is difficult, expensive, and slow.
The reality of right-now (which is all a renter is likely to be able to consider financially) is that a reliable car is an essential item in most parts of the country.
According to Quota its ~80% of people live in houses.
Classic 80:20 rule. Making excuses for why the most difficult 20% doesn’t work is the wrong way of thinking about it. Most of the result for least effort cones from dealing with the 80%.
You explicitly asked about apartments tho
The title is about why “Americans” aren’t buying EV’s. The excuse of them living in an apartment only applies to ~20% of the population.
That’s not enough to explain why Americans aren’t buying, just why 20% if Americans aren’t.
And like I said you don’t start with the most difficult and you don’t push a solution onto a problem when it isn’t the right solution anyway.
Well, in some European countries you could load your car while at work or grocery shopping.
Depending in your commute this could just be enough.
Anyhow: the prices and (country-specific) loading network might be show stopper. Many other things are just habit and/or subjective convenience.
I live in a suburb with a lot of one- and two-car garages, but mine is one of the few houses without cars parked in the driveway or on the street. My neighbors on one side converted their garage into a living space during COVID, and the ones on the other use it for storage of things other than cars.
So even with garages you need space in that garage to store your car, which is yet another hurdle.
This was my biggest issue. I live in a townhouse with a carport-ish thingy, but the same issue applies.
Even Level 1 charging is pretty notable, means the vast majority of your daily miles still come from charging at home. This should be achievable if you have an outside plug and an outdoor extension cable.
Though, I suspect from your statement even that isn’t possible due to ownership issues.
I’ve had an EV for four years now and I’ve relied exclusively on public charging. I won’t say it’s never been without any annoyances but overall it was pretty unproblematic. It can absolutely be done if you want it. Recently they installed chargers at my workplace so now I’m fine and dandy.
I charged my EV overnight from an overhead garage door power socket in my apartment for years before I moved out. Never even needed public charging. Many people just don’t realize you can charge from a normal household outlet
Near all apartments around me have exclusively open-air parking, so this isn’t a viable solution for many. It’s not that the available power is inadequate, it’s non-existent.
I’ve never had an apartment with a garage. At minimum I’d have needed a 100 ft extension cord. Probably longer, which means it’d have to be thicker. Which means more expensive.
And I’m not sure about your apartments but at mine (and many others in my area) we can’t have anything hanging out of our windows unless it’s an AC
If I tried an extension cord it’d be a violation of my lease
IDK either, but it wouldn’t surprise me. Last place I was at they didn’t like that I removed their blinds. Not like I tossed them, but theirs sucked ass and I use blackout curtains anyway.
Had the same problem at my apartment, my workaround was putting the blinds back and putting my blackout curtains behind the blinds (because putting them between the blinds and the window made them upset too)
At least my apartment is wired mostly properly. Still have things on breakers that don’t make sense though.
That’s also what I did. It was just stupid and more difficult. Cause it was the blinds to the patio door.
My son’s apartment had chargers.
I live in an apartment and just charge it once a week for 30 min while I do my grocery shopping. Ezpz. I’ve been doing this for 3 years and have never had a problem.
Would be nice if they made ‘dumb’ EVs. Like the kind where even the windows are manual old school roll up. I don’t need to walk into a spaceship to drive to get groceries. But all they’re selling are luxury spaceships. For all the good Tesla did to rebrand the market, I feel it also did a lot of harm by creating an incentive for luxury vehicles.
Feel like this is what Fisker should’ve tried. The Ocean had the right hardware but it seemed like they spent too much effort on their infotainment instead of getting the basics right. Then target the sub-$30k market with a car that drives well with decent range and fewer gimmicks that just works.
That’s what the PEAR would’ve been
I mean, just they’re too expensive. You can buy a normal gas car for around 147 Monero while an EV will set you back 238 Monero.
Yup.
However, there’s a nice niche of used EVs. I can get a 2-5yo Bolt for $13-17k (76-100 XMR) after the $4k credit, which should still have 200+ miles range. I’m seriously considering it, but only for my commuter.
If you only have one car, range and charging network are serious considerations as well if you like to do road trips. My coworker with a brand new Model 3 has avoided certain trips within our state just because of charging network. It’s a serious issue…
I would avoid used Bolts, especially because of all the issues those have had with going up in flames.
Hopefully they’ve fixed those issues in the newest models…
From what I can tell, it only really impacts 2017 and 2019 Bolts, and most (all?) of the problematic ones have been recalled. Certainly ask for proof when buying though.
I’m just going to get a different year instead.
They expanded the initial recall. It affects models from 2017 to 2022. If you read the linked article I previously provided, then you missed the key point that vehicles were still bursting into flames even after the recall.
Expanded recall: https://gmauthority.com/blog/2021/09/gm-asking-chevy-bolt-ev-owners-to-park-50-feet-away-from-other-vehicles/
GM stopped replacing the batteries of the newer models and instead offered a software solution that would monitor the batteries for any issues and allow the vehicle to charge beyond the 80% limit that they had set because of these issues. https://electrek.co/2023/06/14/bolt-battery-recall-diagnostics/
But it’s worth noting that this software update has failed to prevent some fires, so the problem isn’t really “fixed” even with this: https://electrek.co/2021/07/08/chevy-bolt-ev-catches-on-fire-after-receiving-both-of-gm-software-fixes/
Ah, interesting. Thanks for the clarification. There’s been a lot of white-washing by people arguing that the problem wasn’t as bad as it was (it’s still a small percentage of vehicles), and I was considering getting a 2020 to avoid the issues in the earlier models.
That said, I may still get one. From the last link:
Briglin didn’t always run the battery low before recharging, but said that “at least 50% of charges” he plugged in below 20%. This is a similar pattern to the last fire on May 1 and something that seems to trigger the runaway thermal events.
I will rarely be below 50% charge, much less 20%. My commute is 25 miles each way, 2x/week, so if I assume 50% range in winter, I’ll still need <50% battery capacity. The rest of the driving would be around-town, so maybe 10-15 miles/day. So I could set a cap of 80% and charge whenever it gets <40% and probably be totally fine.
But I also plan to park in a garage with flammable stuff nearby (bare drywall, dry leaves, cardboard boxes, etc), so maybe I won’t even take that small risk. Idk, I’ll need to read more about it. I could park outside if needed though, I have a brick house with external outlets that I could use, it’s just kind of inconvenient.
76 to 100 is not a bad price range, actually. Not at all.
There’s also the issue of very little (if any) used EVs on the market, and in an affordable range. Most people are looking for a reliable used car for around $1000-$2000 US, and the cheapest EV I have seen is around $7500. And there’s always the question of what condition the batteries are in – if you had to replace all the batteries in a used EV then you easily doubled the cost of it. Fortunately it seems like Tesla is the only manufacturer asinine enough to seal their batteries, other manufactures allow replacement of individual cells which will really help in the used market.
$1000-$2000 cars are the $500 beaters from 10+ years ago. I wouldn’t say most people are looking in this price range and they’re usually on their last leg and the cheapest option for a car. There are cellphones that cost more than this now.
Agreed.
I can buy a $1k car, carefully, and have a “beater” that works fine. Most people can’t. They need something in a bit better condition.
Though the greater point - battery replacement would be $5k-$10k on most cars, no thanks - that’s equivalent to replacing both the engine and transmission on a gas vehicle, at “fuck the customer” stealership prices.
My gas vehicles always go 300k miles, before needing either an engine or trans, many longer. Engines today are damn robust, and have been since the 90’s.
My maintenance over the years is trivial - about $150/year on fluid changes (that with an AWD vehicle with a unique setup). Occasionally something breaks, but that stuff you’d have on any vehicle (tie rod ends, latches, hood release cabke/switch, etc).
There’s a lot of BS out there about all this.
If I were expecting to buy a car for $1-2k, I’d expect it to be on its last legs, even for ICE. Unless you’re comfortable fixing it yourself, any significant repair is already not worth it
My car cost 10k€, the equivalent EV is 20k€. Why don’t I buy more EVs? That’s a mystery, let’s call McKinsey to understand why.
Also let’s double the price of more affordable foreign cars to increase the amount of mystery. Sometimes I wonder if governments do this to make fun of us because it’s so stupid.
Those “more affordable foreign cars” are only priced that low because the Chinese government is subsidizing them so much, which is only temporary and lasts just as long as it takes to put their competitors out of business.
This is a race to the bottom just like states giving trillion dollar corporations billions in tax breaks as an incentive to move to their state. At the end of the day, it just harms everyone and should be avoided, which is why the US and EU are putting tariffs on Chinese EVs. They’re still free to sell them at the real cost and actually compete with everyone else.
Americans probably don’t want to buy those Chinese EVs that poorly made and dangerous
Cant charge it myself, doesn’t last long enough, dies when it’s too cold
Not to mention, 5 years in after you’ve invested in the power improvements to your house to allow charging, if your battery fails I guess fuck you? $20k to keep rolling lol. Think that’s part of why the used market is showing huge depreciation for EVs. No one wants to spend 20k for a used vehicle with a ticking time bomb 20k repair guaranteed some time in the future.
5 years in
Batteries last far longer than that, to the point where every warranty I’ve seen is 10 years minimum
I want a super cheap EV for 15k-20k to drive around the city, but I’m not ready to give up my gas jeep.
The cheapest EV I can seem to find is about 45k CAD new, looks stupid, and comes with a ton of features I don’t want that will just break and need repair…
I’ve been saying since EVs hit the market that I couldn’t wait for them to be cheap enough used for me to justify purchasing one. That hasn’t happened yet. Most I’ve ever spent on a car was $7k.
For sure, we can’t expect a good used EV market until we establish a strong new EV market.
I’ll tell you why I won’t buy one.
I’m not going to go into debt as much as a house would’ve cost me 20 years ago so I can drive a 10,000 pound explosive that I spend several hours a day charging, be asked to pull over to turn on Bluetooth, have a tracking device in my car, which the government can turn off if they like, have to fumble with a touch screen to turn up the air conditioner, have to pay rent for features built into the car and then have any features I purchased be non transferrable on the secondary market. These are all fuck you’s to me, so I say fuck you to them. Take your vendor lock in SAAS product and shove it up your ass. You want me to give a shit about emissions, fix all that, until then I’m driving a 20 year old beater.
You’re literally describing every new car now, whether EV or ICE.
Meh, some/much of this is in every new car.
But EV’s take it to a new level with shit you just can’t disable.
I have a car with some of this shit. Just had to disconnect the cell antenna and attach a dummy to block it. Try that with an EV and it’ll probably have a heart attack.
How is that a “meh”? Don’t buy that nonsense. Show the automakers that we’re more willing to drive rust buckets than accept that new tracking nonsense.
It’s one of the big issues giving me pause on replacing our cars. I can either buy something a few years old and probably avoid it (need to do research), or I can get an EV and learn how to disable it.
I share your sentiment but I’m aware that I’m very weird and most people don’t care about most of it.
Same. I wish more people shared some of my weird values (but not all of them).
Yup, and I won’t buy a new gas car either.
If you’re looking for a 10,000 pound vehicle, and are not one of a very small percentage that needs it, you have other problems. Yes, EVs are too heavy, but think like 20% heavier that on comparable, it’s not that bad. It’s only excessively huge inefficient trucks that are that heavy. My mid-sized SUV EV is a 4,000 pound explosive, thank you very much.
One of the benefits, if you’re able to install a home charger, is to never really have to think about refueling. Think of it like charging a phone and just get into the habit of charging over night. I need to recharge a couple hours per week, but I never have to go anywhere. When I get home, if the car is below 50%, I plug in. Then It’s always just ready to go without me ever waiting or going anywhere. So much more convenient than gas stations. Granted road trips aren’t as convenient but they’re also not as bad as people fear
Money. That’s the answer
Buy an EV? In this economy?
Buy an
EVything? In this economy?
Of course there aren’t many people buying EVs when the only ones available in the US are high end luxury models.
Import a bunch of those cheap Chinese EVs and lots of people will buy them. It won’t hurt the US manufacturers because they don’t produce any budget models.
Import a bunch of those cheap Chinese EVs and lots of people will buy them
Or start building affordable EVs here.
Back in the 70s when Toyota, Datsun, Honda etc started eating the big 3’s lunch on affordable fuel efficient vehicles, they responded with smaller cars of their own.
If they’re not willing to respond to market demand and competition, do they even deserve to stay in business?
Isn’t that what the “free market” they claim to love enforces?
There’s the Nissan Leaf, Chevy Bolt/Spark, Mini Cooper EV, Hyundai Kona/Ioniq 6, Fiat 500e and more. These qualify for subsidies if purchased new plus all the gas savings make them decently affordable or you can always buy them used as most people do.
Most people are going for the midrange models like the Model Y, Model 3, Ioniq 5, etc though since it’s not really ideal to buy the ‘worst’ version of something when making a large purchase. People want more range, space, and features. Even with ICE cars, the subcompacts sell/sold pretty poorly.
These qualify for subsidies if purchased new
They also qualify if purchased used. I’m looking at Bolts priced at $13-17k after the used EV credit. That’s pretty decent, I just need to go test drive a couple and make it happen.
But that only works because I’m replacing a commuter. It would be a non-starter for a family car because the maximum range is our minimum distance between stops at gas stations on road trips. We recently drove >800 miles each way on a road trip to visit family. On gas, that took us 12-13 hours. With an EV, I don’t think we could make it in a day, even if recharges took 20-30 min (and that’s a pretty big if, because the fast charging network isn’t great).
It will hurt US manufacturers, because their budget gasoline cars won’t sell.
And they’ll spend more money fighting the inevitable pivot to EVs than they would if they just pivoted now.
Because they’re an unsustainable con for saving the auto/oil cartels instead of the planet/humanity?
Instead of going into poverty buying a luxury vehicle, people should be given safe and sustainable infrastructure for LEVs, bikes, pedestrians, and of course public transit.
