If you thought that Microsoft was done with Recall after its catastrophic reveal as the main feature of Copilot+ PCs, you are mistaken.
Microsoft wants to bring it back this October 2024. Good news is that the company plans to introduce it in test builds of the Windows 11 operating system in October. In other words: do not expect the feature to hit stable Windows 11 PCs before 2025 at the earliest.
While Recall may have sounded great on paper and on work-related PCs, users and experts alike expressed concern. Users expressed fears that malware could steal Recall data to know exactly what they did in the past couple of months.
Others did not trust Microsoft to keep the data secure. We suggested to make Recall opt-in, instead of opt-out, to make sure that users knew what they were getting into when enabling it.
Microsoft pulled the Recall feature shortly after its announcement and published information about its future in June. There, Microsoft said that it would make Recall opt-in by default. It also wanted to improve security by enrolling in Windows Hello and other features.
Another day I’m thankful I don’t work for a company that uses microshit anymore
I can see the use case, and that some people might find this useful (not to mention many agencies and ad companies). But enough was enough, for me at least. Linux Mint rocks. Can’t see myself going back to Windows.
So imagine you’re on PornHub and then out of nowhere, Clippy shows up and says “hmmm looks like you need some help pleasuring yourself”, then starts flicking through similar nude pictures and videos to what you’ve been looking at before. The idle animation of the AI assistant even changes to Clippy morphing into the shape of a penis and shagging a rolled up piece of lined paper is if it were a fleshlight. You can’t tell if Microsoft are mocking you for being a coomer, nor can you tell whether to find Clippy’s sexual deviancy funny or creepy.
Somehow that hypothetical dystopia of Clippy watching you masturbate is only slightly worse than what Microsoft plan to do with Recall. If the mere thought of a machine learning AI taking screenshots of your desktop every few seconds and learning from your computer usage habits isn’t absolutely fucking terrifying… Then imagine that these are likely being uploaded to a server for the perusal of advertisers, intelligence agencies and any hackers skilled enough to break into Microsoft’s servers.
Even if it was stored locally, all it takes is one dodgy web link for you to inadvertently send all your Recall data to a hacker and have it ransomed.
And this just about sums up all of Microsoft’s creativity.
They should just market to the blackmail fetish community at this point.
The writing is on the wall, they are not giving up on that potential cash cow. I won’t use it, hell I don’t use windows, but there are normal computer users that will have it thrust upon on them and won’t know how to really turn it off.
I use Arch Linux… btw
Seriously, the alternatives are there… It’s time to take the leap and never look back.
I wonder why are they so invested into this “feature”.
Building a fully trained model on user preferences/habits is the holy grail of marketing.
You can infer user intelligence, addictive personalities, and vices. You can couple that with income and likelihood to spend.
When you pull that kind of data from email or even from web browsing, you don’t get the kind of depth that you can get from a trained model.
There’s models with all your habits and preferences, they’re worth serious money. And that’s why Microsoft is pushing so hard to make sure you log in with a online account.
Up front disclaimer: this is all conjure on my part.
I own an “AI” laptop (only because I was interested in a snapdragon x). Most of the AI enabled features don’t really require a NPU, such as a decent background camera blur, some paint and photo stuff, live captions, etc. Microsoft was looking for a headline feature that didn’t already have a CPU/GPU/cloud implementation. Enter: recal.
IMO this is very much about finding a novel feature, that doesn’t have an alternate implementation. The near term motive is to justify their “AI” PCs to customers in hops that customers adopt them. I suspect the long term goal is opening up a revenue stream for AI - get customers used to “AI enabled” features and then tack a subscription cost onto them, but I truly hope this won’t be the case - especially when the hardware you own has a NPU.
I find npus dumb just to boost ai performance what the hell a cpu and gpu is enough
Honestly, it’s an exciting feature. I just don’t trust anyone to build it, or even myself to keep it safe.
Lots of comments in here saying this sends stuff to Microsoft and yet that isn’t true. It’s an offline local feature.
I personally look forward to giving it a try.
Wanna buy a bridge?
Did they make hard commitments to 100% keep the data local and never use it to spy on you? What does their privacy policy say? Come on dude, we’re talking about microsoft. You’re more likely to receive millions from a nigerian prince than to get some privacy from them.
A Google search later: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/privacy-and-control-over-your-recall-experience-d404f672-7647-41e5-886c-a3c59680af15
All local. Nothing sent. You can choose to not believe it, but it’s deceptive to imply they don’t say it’s local.
If you don’t believe them it’s one thing but they said what they said.
No internet or cloud connections are required or used to save and analyze snapshots. Your snapshots aren’t sent to Microsoft. Recall AI processing occurs locally, and your snapshots are securely stored on your local device only.
That’s better than I thought. For the moment.
It only mentions the snapshot storage and processing. It’s a perfect solution for them. The AI will crunch the data and report only it’s findings to Microsoft for advertising purposes. They save on storage and electricity by offloading the data harvesting to your machine.
I see, they don’t state anywhere that the results of the screenshot analysis are never transmitted to them.
Well you don’t know that, they’re telling you that. First issue.
The second is that it can and will change in time.
Perhaps for a few quarters or years until you’re locked in. Infinite growth demanded by investors make the eventual harvest as sure to come as taxes and death
Thing is, it BARELY changes performance
Windows users got no right to complain about performance.
what? Im not trying to be rude but i dont understand why you’re saying that
Lol, it’s a running joke that Windows have terrible performance.
aah ok, yeah that didnt make sense to me because for gaming pc’s at least, windows has equivalent performance
A lot of games aren’t made with efficiency in mind anyway, so you probably wouldn’t notice for your usecase.
oh, i use linux, iwas just pointing out that for games there isnt much difference
Yet another reminder that alternatives, where your privacy is not for sale, and your hardware belongs to you, actually exist in 2024
What do you recommend? What is the most Apple-like+MacBook like?
Zorin is a Ubuntu-derived distro that has multiple desktop managers built in, including one that mimics macOS.
Any decent laptop for hardware. ElementaryOS for the OS, if you really want the look/feel of macos.
Roger
Edit: its beautiful, is it well-maintained? Do you use it?
I did for a bit, but I’m not a fan of the macos ui, so it wasn’t for me.
A lot of the laptops made by Huawei and Xiaomi are MacBook-like in design at least. Framework is much more repairable though as are business laptops from HP or Dell. Dell in particular has made some quite long battery life laptops in the past like the Latitude 7410 and 7400, though those aren’t particularly new they are at least cheap when bought second hand.
In terms of OS you got to go with some Linux flavor as they offer various DEs some of which are mac like. Obviously macOS and Linux terminals are somewhat similar anyway. PopOS is a great option.
I would not, in good conscience, ever recommend a Dell machine to anyone anymore. Not only the design and build quality have gone down catastrophically, but Dell would take literally every opportunity they have to fuck you over.
XPS machines in particular have a solid history of being good on paper, but a nightmare, once you ever need to contact them about issues
XPS aren’t business machines, just premium consumer machines. They aren’t built to the same standard, as would honestly be expected given they cost less. I’ve had my own bad experiences with an XPS laptop and wouldn’t buy one again. Too many compromises in the name of being thin and lightweight.
To be honest I was more suggesting second hand machines where warranty from the OEM isn’t really a consideration.
I think you will find most OEMs don’t really care about customer support unless you are a business. HP, Asus, and friends all have their own horror stories. There are only a few companies like Framework I actually trust.
Elementary is a very polished and user friendly linux distribution designed to familiar to MacOS users.
Framework
Which OS to go with it?
Framework only officially supports Fedora and Ubuntu. And Ubuntu is the only distro that I will tell you not to use so…Fedora.
Use Gnome DE to get a Mac-like UI.
I am running Kubuntu on mine
Linux distro of your choice
If you want “Apple-like” look and feel, KDE Neon, Ubuntu, or Pop_OS! are good first Linux distros to start with.
I think Fedora is pretty great. It offers a lot of packages and ships updates quickly, has good performance, doesn’t include much crap, is pretty good security-wise and lets you choose between many desktop environments. There are even more stable and secure immutable versions like Fedora Silverblue, Kinoite and others, along with forks of it like Universal Blue and the distros that are based on it like Bazzite, Aurora, Bluefin or Secureblue.
You can fix it instead of buying a new one, it’s not like Apple
Ubuntu or Pop OS use GNOME by default which is similar to macOS
Pop!_OS won’t use GNOME for much longer. They’re currently developing their own desktop called COSMIC.
COSMIC itself has a similar design to macOS
Not until Linux comes pre-deployed on gaming laptops for sale. That’s my market.
Before you ask, I don’t have the know-how to boot into Linux, and I need the portability of a laptop. As well as enjoying gaming to an extent. Pretty niche.
We already have the Steam deck, and SteamOS just got official support for third-party hardware. I don’t think it will take that long until we see gaming laptops or mini PCs preloaded with SteamOS.
Yeah, that would work I guess.
it’s for corporations to deploy on all their worker drones’ workstations
How long before there’s a discovery request for all recall data for a time period and companies start screaming about the risks with recall?
companies start screaming about the risks with recall?
this comment veers pretty close to implying that upper and middle management know a single goddamn thing about tech or cybersecurity OR that they listen to their IT guys
I wish they would do a much better job of distinguishing corporate workstation versions of Windows and Home versions of Windows. Put all this MS ecosystem garbage on the workstation version, and make the Home version a stripped down to the essentials OS. Which is what most of us try to do with tools like ShutUp10, anyway.
i’ll do you one better: all PCs at my job are running win10 LTSC, which was meant for specific use cases like running neon signs and shit
And even for that cases it’s bloated as fuck.
I get ads on my workstation. Its fun. I cant remove them without getting permission from the IT department. Meanwhile my home computers have no ads at all.
Ironically, in reality it’s the exact opposite. The home version is pumped to the brim with this dogshit, while the Enterprise version is stripped to the bare necessities. They likely know that other corporations have the balls to sue them for all kinds of reasons
Agreed - if I were evil, I would use this data to look for long periods of static/unchanging desktop screenshots to look for inactivity and employees lying about being there or away.
Honestly this is just an arms race. If the above happens (and if I can come up with that use case think about what will come up when someone actually smart thinks about it.)
The response? I’d make a tool that presses alt-tab every 15 seconds a random number of times - to both keep the computer alive and change the desktop view, maybe move the windows around a bit for variety. A usb rubber ducky would be perfect for this.
Agreed. But if big brother really wants, they can detect a weird program running, a weird hardware being on it, or just that someone is tabbing around without actually doing something.
That’s a really good summary of the degradation of software throughout time and the path to recreate software for the people. Thanks for sharing.
Thanks - I love that video and I share it all the time. It gets across the whole idea of why Free (libre) software is important without preaching, and (as you point out) with a reminder that it wasn’t always this way.
Of course it is coming back.
It will keep coming until plebs accept parasite.
Their feature may come back to their OS but their OS isn’t coming back to my hardware.
MS: Here’s a cool new feature!
Users: That is spyware bullshit, fuck off!
MS: But muh ecosystem!
Users: Nobody fucking wants any of that. Now STFU and run my games, grandpa.
MS: sniffs This isn’t over, you little shits.It is funny how they think this product useful to so many people. I believe they only do it because they have to use AI in any way but could not come up with something better.
This tool stinks of management requesting a better way to spy the employees. It has little to no benefits for the user.
I’m not sure any company wants to have recordings of their employees screens feed to Microsoft servers. It could never happen at my company because of the amount of private information we deal with. Privacy laws, NDAs, you name it. There’s no way we could enable this without a shit storm of risk.
<Insert how you’ll use Linux> <shit on Microsoft and how you are done> <rest of the population uses Windows because they don’t know shit about tech and how shitty this is> <realize work loves Microsoft and you can’t change that> <destroy all your tech> <become a Luddite hermit>
So why don’t you? Yes, install Linux, make that switch
people not knowing shit about tech is not their fault. I’ve been using tech for 30+ years, and I’m usually the most tech savvy person in my circle of family and friends, except for a friend in IT.
the reason I’m not getting into Linux is no longer gaming, it’s that whenever i see some fuckers talking about Linux it’s completely indecipherable with proper names, commands, and jargon. it’s straight up technobabble, and when it’s not insufferable elitism it’s certainly disinviting.
you think people are going to listen to a bunch of nerds talking about distros and shit using 40 different acronyms within two sentences and think “ah this is my new home” like do you fucking hear yourselves at all you sound exactly like a character from the hackers, and not in a good way.
if anything is preventing people from switching it’s Linux users, and probably developers as well. if you make it look like people have to have a degree to get into your shit, they’re not gonna do it.
You’re 100% right. Linux itself is perfectly capable for a lot of users (note I didn’t say all users, or even most users, before people start coming at me with their weird edge case that requires Windows) but the community of both users and devs do absolutely nothing good to get people on board.
people not knowing shit about tech is not their fault
I don’t agree with much else of what you are saying, but you are quite right here. We should indeed not throw people under the bus because they’re not tech savvy and only know how to use Windows. They need to be defended from all those horrible anti-human and privacy invading practices by Microsoft and other Big Tech companies as well, and we should keep fighting and pushing back on those companies pushing their anti-human features, regardless of whether an alternative exists.
BUT, ultimately Linux is the answer, and people are not wrong for pointing that out. It’s the only viable alternative that is user respecting by design. It’s the only way to free yourself from the abusive relationship between you and Microsoft, because much like an abusive partner, Microsoft will never change. So if you’re tech savvy, and you would be able to switch to Linux but for some reason you don’t, I have little sympathy for your Windows problems.
Linux is still not viable for creative work, office work or competitive gaming, 3 of the most important uses of computers.
I’d love to see Linux be more widespread, but until I can play any game, use my required abobe products and run Microsoft office it’s pretty much a useless operating system. Open source alternatives don’t exist for many uses, or if they do they’re a significantly worse experience
https://youtu.be/CPRvc2UMeMI?feature=shared
Relevant part at 5:15 but it’s all on point. There’s a better version somewhere but this was the top hit…
proving my point. Linux users are worse than Mac users.
Nobody cares what OS anybody runs except for people that are selling OS’s.
Linux is nice and private and as complicated as you’d like to make it.
Linux is also the main operating system of “the cloud”
Thus that’s the thrust of my joke.
But yeah, rah rah Big Corp important to my personal identity! I am EXACTLY the strawman you need for your argument. Tell me more about my motivations and concerns.
funny you mention strawman literally in the middle of your strawman argument. is that lampshade hanging?
you’re right, i shouldn’t.
This. But not just for gaming in my case. I’m a freelance video editor and rely heavily on both Davinci Resolve and Premiere Pro for various clients.
I have Linux Mint on my old XPS 13 and love it, but I’m not going through hoops just to get my workflow in a “functional state.” I have no interest in going the Apple route, and it just works flawlessly on Windows.
If I didn’t need it for my livelihood, I’d likely use Mint full time.
So it goes.
Windows is for people who’s life or personality doesn’t reolve around their computer. It’s just a tool to get things done and that’s it.
But people whose life or personality doesn’t revolve around their computer should also be protected from user hostile and privacy invading practices.
They won’t care or won’t even notice these things. They’ll open their laptop, book a holday or find some new car insurance or write a report of whatever and not even think about what the OS does. Unless they’re someone who is already extremely sensitive over privacy of their data, you’re not going to convice the average Windows user to switch to Linux.
When I was younger I used to use Ubuntu as my main OS for years, tried Arch for a bit - then went back to Windows. I haven’t got the time or energy to be fucking about with things like that anymore.
if anything is preventing people from switching it’s Linux users, and probably developers as well. if you make it look like people have to have a degree to get into your shit, they’re not gonna do it.
The thing is, I agree with you, and unfortunately it’s actually a common misconception how difficult Linux is to use. You can easily install a beginner-friendly distro like Ubuntu/Mint/PopOS and get started that way, it doesn’t have to be daunting. It’s free to try out and you have nothing to lose by giving it a try, you could always go back to Windows.
It’s free? Like you can put it on your current computer simultaneously with windows for free for free, or you have to buy a new computer to put it on but it itself is free for free? Because if it’s the first one I should give it a shot. Problem is I’m already learning so many new things currently I’m already a bit overwhelmed as it is but one of these days I absolutely have to because I’m getting so sick of windows’s BS.
You can generally install Linux on any computer you want, entirely for free. You don’t need to buy a new computer, you just install it like any other operating system.
Also there’s often live USB environments where you can boot from the USB but try it out before dedicating to installing it on your SSD/hard drive. You could technically even dual boot but that can have its own problems.
As always, back up your data when trying out things.
For basic things like web browsing, watching videos, and reading emails, Linux is excellent. It’s when you start getting into more power-user type stuff where you have to learn more about how things work on Linux.
Hmm thanks for the info. I really do need to tackle it eventually. Problem is I do a lot of art stuff, modelling, animating, music production, painting, etc. I know a few of the programs I need are probably fairly easy to get working but there is just so much in my workflow that the thought of having to work through each and every one of those programs trying to get them set up while also under the stress of the actual work I need to be doing with them is nightmare fuel. I wish microsoft would just stop being wankers but I know that is never going to happen.
It’s not like people need the Linux community to install Linux, they didn’t need a “windows community” to use windows.
that’s because windows is beginner friendly. too much for my taste, but that’s how you get people to come aboard. by making it easy for a dumbass to use. simple terms, familiar words, relatable metaphors, graphic interface, installers that do the work for you…
you don’t need a windows community to figure things out on windows. i was like 6 when I started using windows 3.x and i did fine because it was either intuitive or it taught me how to do things.
with Linux you do need to refer to communities to even know where to start, and even then the community is fucking indecipherable. nerds don’t know how to speak human.
If you started using Linux with 6, or mac for that matter you’ll probably find that more intuitive than windows.
Sorry but the graphic interface of windows is jack shit, you have different types of system configuration and legacy menus all over the place, for anything more serious editing the Registry is not what I call intuitive.
I’ve a friend that had constantly BSOD while playing certain games and he only found the solution in a russian forum suggesting to rename a .dll file in system, that was in 2015-2016. That’s not intuitive. The biggest difference is the amount of time that people need to do that in windows vs in linux, in any case people without more knowledge in PCs are completely lost and need assistance.
That is one of the most annoying thing that i experienced (and still do) when i switched to linux some months ago. Sometimes I have a problem and I look online to solve it where I see that i have to do some terminal commands explaimed with terms I dont know and maybe edit a file in /etc, only to find out some days later that I could have done it very easily with the GUI in much less time and without that hassle. Most advanced users find the terminal easier, but for new users it is really hard without knowing the commands and can only copy-paste. Over time i started to learn some commands, but doing it so abruptly will just discourage everyone.
Switching to linux was a very good thing I did and I should have done it earlier, but I still keep a copy of windows, the biggest reason is to have a machine that just works if i really need to do some thing and if I have a problem with linux, that and for compatibility, to a smaller extent as I (luckly) do not use need to use THAT programs the just refuse to work in linux
The alternative of showing things in the GUI is not great either because of the number of distros and desktop environment. I imagine that a article/forum response with 30 SS of the different combinations of distro + desktop environment will be overwhelming for the beginner anyway
yeah, thats one of the reasons why most tech support hotlines are less than helpful when you are running linux (except basic configuration data) - the amount of different systen configurations, UI’s and versions you can run into is just too big. Windows had at the most 5 different concurrent versions in the wild (Win98/ME/NT/2000/XP was the maximum i encountered in the same timeframe, and the NT’s were occurring once in blue moon)
That’s a lot more prevalent online than in-person.
If you ask a Linux user in-person about Linux, they’ll likely oversimplify, but if you ask 2-3 Linux users at the same time, you’ll quickly get into jargon. That’s not a Linux problem, that’s a problem with pretty much every niche interest, people really like to one-up each other in whatever that is. Just try it sometime. Ask someone about their favorite board game, what camera to buy, etc, and you’ll get a simple answer. Then repeat, but with a group of people who all like that thing, and you’ll get a much more complicated answer.
As with any hobby, there’s always another level of depth you can go. The trick is to corner one nerd, and only one nerd.
What is the problem with “jargon” anyway? You can’t discuss technical things without using technical language.
If you take a bunch of Windows nerds (yes they exist), and get them talking about group policies and registry edits and powershell cmdlets, you get the same thing.
Exactly. And that’s not helpful for your average Windows user. If your average Windows user calls tech support, they’ll get a simple answer. If they instead walk into a tech support room, they’ll get multiple answers, with the techs trying to one-up each other because that’s how they work.
So if you’re a novice in an area, talk one-on-one, don’t ask a crowd.
If your average Windows user calls tech support, they’ll get a simple answer
They’ll get a simple answer alright. In fact, they’ll be lucky if they get any answer at all that is not reboot, retry, reinstall or some other cargo cult nonsense from some on-paper “MCSA” in a third world country.
And sorry for going on a rant here, but Windows tech support forums are truly the shit tier of all tech support forums, because very few people actually have the skill to properly diagnose problems in Windows when something outside of the realm of expected behavior occurs. It’s all learned behaviorisms instead of understanding: reinstall your drivers! defrag your hard drive! run ipconfig /renew! clean your cache folder! delete your cookies! Never: “look in the system eventlog for an error event coming from this source, and tell me what the error code says”
they’ll be lucky if they get any answer at all that is not reboot, retry, reinstall or some other
And 90% of the time, that’ll solve the problem.
The other 10% of the time, hopefully you have a decent IT dept at your work or school. I worked at one, and we occasionally had a weird one where we needed to actually check the event logs and figure out what was going on (usually it’s faulty HW).
If I was bored, I’d even look at people’s personal equipment, provided they asked nicely and they were okay with my upfront “no guarantees” spiel. At that point, I had already switched to Linux 100% on my personal devices (and my work machine was Linux w/ Windows in a VM), though my job was Windows tech support. However, when anyone came in, there would always be a host of “did you try X?” and whatnot, where X is some relatively obscure cli-only tool (e.g. flushing the DNS cache) or some BIOS setting. Nerds love a puzzle, and a visitor bringing a problem is a much more exciting puzzle than whatever is in the ticket queue, and they want to impress the guest with their knowledge (but more often than not, the guest just ignores everything they say).
That lone person will give you a simple answer. It may not be the best answer, but it’ll probably solve the problem, though it may cost you more (e.g. you may need to buy some new hardware or spend time reinstalling). But it’ll be simpler and probably not overwhelming.
Corner the nerd and grab them by the throat until they explain Linux in sufficiently simple terms. This is what I learned from this thread.
is there nothing bullying cannot solve
dude where do you think I’m hanging out that I’m gonna find people who use Linux in person
We’re not some rare breed, you’ll find us at grocery stores, bars, on the bus, etc. We’re pretty good at hiding though, and we get startled when approached.
If you want to attract a Linux nerd, put a Tux sticker somewhere. Don’t do anything distro-specific like an Ubuntu or Fedora sticker, because that’ll attract the wrong kind of attention, just a cute Tux sticker. It may take a few days for us to sense it’s not a trap, but you’ll eventually get someone asking about the sticker, and it’ll be a bit quicker if you happen to be a girl (but if you’re really cute, it’ll take longer).
Linux night isn’t Mondays at your local hole in the wall?
Even more annoying is how many people in the Linux community often recommend distros that are terrible for beginners. People who constantly try to tell newbies to download base debian or arch should be removed from the conversation instantly.
Work is the only reason I still have windows in my life, and thankfully, they will be trialing linux as an option for employees in the next month or two. I signed up so damn quick lol.
I got lucky that my last 3 jobs have all let me use Linux on a work laptop, but I guess it’s not too surprising since I work as a web developer and production always runs on Linux lol
