I’ve got Win 10 and it works fine. I have no reason to upgrade to Win 11. If any new ‘feature’ gets added to Win 10, I will disable it.
Hopefully they will at least not shove things into the packages that ship to LTSC updates as well. They did that with a cloud backup app awhile ago and it pissed a ton of people off.
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Video Games.
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Popular usage of PCs does not revolve around gaming.
It does in my house.
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My guy has been living under a stone for the past few years it seems.
What is stopping anyone from selling a laptop with linux on it and as little support as they do for windows ?
Nothing, and so they do. Dell will sell you an XPS 13 with Ubuntu installed. Lenovo will let you select Ubuntu or fedora in some models. System76 and Tuxedo will sell you a bunch of laptops only with Linux. Starlabs sells Linux laptops. KDE sells a laptop. Purism sells Linux laptops.
Did you just assume no one sells a Linux laptop?
Never saw one at costco or wallmart or staples.
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Because that’s 4% that is competition free. Not counting the majority of users who only need a browser and won’t be able to tell the difference anyway. Just call it anything but linux, so they have useful search results if they have any problems.
For PC gamers Linux is the only alternative but I don’t expect a major migration. The last ten years have shown that the average gamer is willing to accept a lot of hostile behaviour from companies as long as they are able to keep playing their games. Microtransactions, Loot boxes, kernel level anticheat, and broken buggy releases haven’t killed that industry yet. Windows 11 is just another thing that will be loudly complained about in gamer circles but not much will come of it.
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This is it. Everything “just works” on windows. Until that exact same experience is available on Linux it will never take over. And no, I don’t mean “there is an app you can install for a distribution that makes it easy to…”. That is an immediate failure. It needs to be easy to do everything, out of the box, with no additional setup.
I say this as someone that uses windows, Mac, and various flavors of Linux every single day. I want this for Linux, but it isn’t there.
I use a modified Windows 11 OS that debloats the shit out of it, and disables all non critical MS garbage.
This is it. Everything “just works” on windows.
🤔
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Exactly this. I’m comfortable in both windows and Linux. I tried Linux as my daily driver multiple times on my main PC but it was always not worth the effort. I don’t have days of free time anymore to mess with Linux as my main OS. I put Ubuntu on my laptop and while it worked I was often spending days troubleshooting some bug, either with the touchpad not working or with with the disro itself trying to something as simple as an image preview when selecting pictures to upload to discord or whatever.
I’ve spun up dozens of virtual machines on my server at home and that’s where Linux just works. After I get it configured I’ve almost never needed to touch it again. Until Linux gets the basic user experience as easy as windows then people will stay with windows.
Well yeah Ubuntu is shit. I haven’t had nearly this many problems. I also don’t use the latest hardware which helps immensely.
It’s not just Ubuntu. “Just don’t use modern hardware” is not a solution.
Fedora, Arch, Void, and other distros with newer kernels have less issues with new hardware. By not using the latest hardware I mean hardware that’s been out a year or two. Not stuff that’s ancient. You probably won’t have any issues with the latest CPUs and GPUs on say Arch or Fedora, but it can be an issue for things like WiFi cards or on distros like Debian, Linux Mint, and Ubuntu.
I don’t have days of free time anymore to mess with Linux as my main OS.
I get paid to deploy and troubleshoot Windows. I use Linux at home. Do I do this because after spending hours forcing Windows to behave as desired I want to come home and do the same to my Linux box? No, I do it because Linux is reliable and easy, and it’s not built on a premise that someone else knows how I want my computer to work better than I do.
Having to fight against what MS wants (or throw up your hands and accept it) is now baked into Windows. Even if I had to spend hours to use something else, I would.
I don’t intend this to disparage you, I say this because comments like quoted always ruffle my feathers. As if everyone who uses Linux has said, “Welp, I know this takes hours a day of my time to use, but dammit I’m just stubborn.”
NO, this is not what using Linux is like for the majority of people who choose to use it, even for gaming. If it’s like that for you, then you need a different distro, or different hardware, or you aren’t actually as comfortable with Linux as you think you are.
And it’s OK not to be comfortable with it, no one sprang from the womb knowing Linux - but to imply that Linux requires hours of time to use vs Windows is IME very false. Yes, it requires people to learn new things, but no one came from the womb knowing Windows either - most of us have just been exposed to it continuously and have invested that learning time without even realizing it since we’ve always been “forced” (to one degree or another) to use it.
So have you tried music production with Linux? Installing VSTs is exactly that: hours upon hours of banging your head against a wall with Wine.
There simply are usecases that don’t work out of the box with Linux that do on Windows because the companies don’t support Linux.
There simply are usecases that don’t work out of the box with Linux that do on Windows because the companies don’t support Linux.
I know this to be true, but generally folks who are in a corner case know they are a corner case and express it as such when they make such comments. 99.999% of people will never have to experience what it’s like to produce music on any platform, for example.
I tried to explicitly capture this in my comment:
NO, this is not what using Linux is like for the majority of people who choose to use it
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You’re wrong but okay. I’ve tried it on and off for over a decade and I always come back to windows. Not because it does everything I want but because it just works. As I’ve said, I used it for both desktops and servers and it’s always the same for desktops. Linux has always given me some sort of problem for every day use no matter the distro or hardware. I’ve used Debian, Ubuntu, red hat, and opensuse. First laptop I tried Ubuntu on ages ago the wireless never worked and dozens of attempts to fix it didn’t work. Tried it again a few years later on a gaming PC I built and had to tweak every individual game to get it to work with wine. Plus there was always some audio bug I had to fix with sound or microphone just not working. And I could never get the same FPS as in windows. Once that PC died I built another one with windows. My previous build I dual booted windows and Linux and I had to switch to an ultra buggy alpha version of Debian to get my 1080 to work. When I went to uninstall that distro because it was too unstable, grub nuked the boot record and I couldn’t even get back into windows despite all the attempts I made to repair the MBR.
This is all coming from someone who is college educated in this field so no I’m not some random chucklefuck who doesn’t know what their doing. I really dislike it when you Linux fanboys just brush off legitimate critisms because you personally haven’t had issues. Linux is not a mainstream OS and quicker you guys accept that then maybe we can move past this bullshit of having a free and open source OS that is unfriendly to use and move in to fixing the issues that’s preventing people from switching.
Linux is not a mainstream OS and quicker you guys accept that then maybe we can move past this bullshit of having a free and open source OS that is unfriendly to use and move in to fixing the issues that’s preventing people from switching.
Man, I don’t care if anyone switches or not. Convincing people to switch isn’t something I consider any kind of priority, and I don’t think it should be a priority for anyone. Linux is here, and happily used by many without these hours and hours of problems, and it’s constantly getting better. It’s there for the folks who want it. Windows has been on a downward spiral since Win2K went EoL, and each and every year I’m more and more surprised by the abuse they heap on their users. But, it’s fine with me for that to be fine for some folks.
I disagree with the specific sentiment I quoted for the specific reasons I described. I don’t claim it’s for everyone, nor that corner cases don’t exist. It’s entirely fine for us to disagree on this.
Edit–
I went back to reread my comment to see what was so offensive or could have been taken so negatively. I do think I should have included a “probably” near the beginning of the sentence below. Aside from that, yeah.
If it’s like that for you, then you need a different distro, or different hardware, or you aren’t actually as comfortable with Linux as you think you are.
“It works fine if you follow a 10 stage guide filled with terminal commands to configure it properly, which describes commands that are different in your distro.”
Cool.
The most regular pc user probably only got a work computer that runs 10 or 11 and they will likely have no choice since most companies don’t support Linux clients. My work actually does which is neat. I would absolutely use Linux at work, if working with Windows wasn’t my job.
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and yes, I know they are both based off Linux.
maybe pedantic, but macos is actually bsd based. chromeos being based off of actual linux(gentoo) is what has allowed them to slowly open it up to the point where you can actually install regular linux apps on it
slowly open it up to the point where you can actually install regular linux apps on it
The linux running Chrome OS is completely separated, by design, from the virtual machine that runs linux apps under Chrome OS.
They just want to make w10 as bad if not worse than w11. Because they want people say: I might as well use w11.
TF do they mean stubbornly popular? My windows 10 works perfectly fine and I have absolutely no reason to change anything about it. What is this weird ass ‘if you’re not upgrading, you’re being stubborn’ when there is no reason to and windows 11 looks ass on top of it
That’s why they want to “update” it. What they really mean is break it…
… said the stubborn person refusing to upgrade.
I was still on Windows 7 until about four months ago when I needed to upgrade to 10 for work. I totally agree and understand your point
said the stubborn person refusing to upgrade.
You sound like you 100% missed their point.
For those who are still on Win 7: Firefox (and so Tor Browser) will stop supporting Win 7 soon. Seriously, you better plan to migrate to Linux. Not-so-good privacy issues aside, everyone knows Windows is not very secure/safe/convenient anyway.
Umm maybe it’s stubbornly popular because devices running it can’t be updated. My OG surface book (a Microsoft flagship device for awhile) is great hardware, but can’t update to 11. My gaming laptop is even better hardware but doesn’t meet the win11 requirements. Because they are sealed devices. I literally couldn’t if I wanted to.
Agreed, and I would think XP was the stubbornly popular version. People were on there for years after end of support.
A large amount of people still clinging to Win 10 because the only other (Windows) option is upgrading to 11 doesn’t mean it’s “popular” so much as it means people want 11 even less than they wanted 10.
Another great ploy by Microsoft to increase Linux adoption.
I just dual booted Linux Mint yesterday when I was reminded of the Win 10 end of service date, and hope to keep with it as my main system.
Linux has come a long way with compatibility since I last tried it ~10 years ago. The fact that Steam games ran perfectly without an evening of configuring settings blew my mind.
I set up a second SSD with Bazzite for dual booting, but it’s not practical for me to use as a daily driver yet. I have a Nvidia GPU, and the drivers just aren’t up to par with their Windows counterparts yet. I could tolerate not having HDR, but also not being able to use 2 monitors with different refresh rates at the same time is killing me.
There’s an update in the works that should fix at least the multi-monitor problem, but still no HDR.
Did you use bazzite with gnome or kde? If I recall correctly, kde plasma 6.1 has support for multi monitor with different refresh
I’m on KDE. It’s quite an odd problem. If I keep them both set to refresh rates below their max, things work fine. However, if both monitors are set to their native refresh rates, the higher refresh rate one goes blank and the lower one starts flickering. If I disable the lower refresh rate monitor, I can set the higher one to it’s max without issue though.
Essentially, when I’m booting into Bazzite, I need to either disable my second monitor or halve my refresh rate or it’s unusable.
Interesting. If you have some time, might be worth trying to live USB boot drive of something like fedora desktop kde spin or pop_os cosmic DE just to see if the issue persists for other distros.
I’m theory this should be working now, it’s too bad it isn’t. My desktop is a 4 monitor setup that I’m hoping to move to a fedora based distro as well.
Pop_OS was the first distro I tried before coming to Bazzite. Cosmic sorta worked, but was overall worse… No flickering there, but eventually, a few minutes after logging in, the desktop would freeze. Completely unusable unfortunately. I think Bazzite is fedora based iirc? I don’t know, this is my first attempt at anything beyond putting Ubuntu on old laptops.
Ya bazzite is based on fedora with an immutable file system, so it’s called fedora atomic. Fedora atomic then has variants like bazzite, universal blue etc.
I’m curious if the baseline fedora desktop would have the same issues.
https://fedoraproject.org/spins/kde/download
Multi refresh rate on monitors is a relatively new thing for Linux so bugs are still being ironed out. It sucks that things like these are still not at parity with windows but it’s improving.
I’m on Arch KDE and have and Nvidia 2080ti. I can’t run Wayland. Otherwise I run 3 monitors, 1 an ultra wide at 120hz. I haven’t had any issues.
Do you know if Nvidia Surround works? I’ve been gaming with a tripple monitor setup and would really like to keep it.
That I don’t know, I only have two monitors and they’re totally different sizes so I haven’t looked into it, sorry!
On Nobara you can just double click .exe files and they open perfectly with winetricks. Absolutely bonkers.
This is with an nvidia card too, 0 issues 0 config needed
That’s really awesome.
Does an old version of Ms office like 2010, 2013 or 2016 work with this?
according to a quick search yes! not able to torrent it rn to verify however.
Honestly my ability to game has what has kept me out of linux. I trialed PopOs a while ago. I will more than likely switch to it when shit starts getting super annoying.
It’s already super annoying, and this is what people always say. What’s it going to take in your case?
As of right now? It’ll probably be the drop in support next year. While I have my complaints about Microsoft or any major corporation, for that matter, I’m not the most tech savvy. If Microsoft were to come out and say support is extended, I’ll stick with W10. If they come out with an OS that allowed me to pick and choose what software I wanted and didn’t load it with a shit ton of bloat ware I’d be all over that like shit on velcro. I know these are pipe dreams, and I will most likely move. For now, I will stay the current course until it’s time to jump into the Linux pool and learn how to swim.
Gaming on Linux works like a charm now
It’s the multi-player side that is still an issue though. The anticheat software is a pain.
Some multiplayer, but not all. Not that that makes it perfect, but I’ve had minimal issues with multiplayer games. I do not play popular FPS games where anti cheat software is prevalent, so that’s mostly why. I did get Ghost of Tsushima the other day, and that is not compatible for online play, but I think that’s because of Sony.
Personally I’ve had zero issues with multiplayer. But yeah, I’m also not playing the latest twitch shooters and whatever.
This is good news to me since I don’t play twitch shooters.
I’d love to run just Linux, but I don’t want to hassle with dual boot for the couple of competitive shooters I do play.
It sucks because all the other games I play would run without a problem.
Do Ubisoft and Blizzard games run? I keep reading praises about Steam but I am more concerned with the other launchers
Blizzard games have always had good linux compatibility. Might change now that they’ve bought by microsoft though.
As for ubisoft games they probably run too, launchers are a pita but they do run, you’ll need something like lutris, bottles or heroic launcher to get you started running shit outside of steam, they’re not necessary but they make things simpler.Afaik Steam has a compatibility layer (Proton) which makes the games run on linux, because the SteamOS which is running on the Steam Deck is Linux. There is Wine you could use for games outside Steam, or you could also try running them throuhg Steam.
Now I have no experience with any of this, but plan to set up Linux dual boot at some point and this is my understanding of things. Somebody better suited will probably chime in with mire details
There’s the new UMU launcher that allows running proton outside of steam. Winehq also works fine by itself, at the end of the day proton is just a fork of wine with a few patches and relies on plenty of shared components like dxvk and vkd3d.
They usually do if they don’t use kernel level anti cheat. But it’s a bit more complicated than Steam. There are guides online. It’s manageable but it’s not “click play and you’re done” like steam
I just wiped Windows from my drive yesterday and committed to Fedora after dualbooting for 15 years…I’ve been maining Fedora for a while and always kept Windows around “just in case”, but never actually seemed to need it. This recall/AI spyware was it for me though. Gaming has been a breeze for a while on Fedora/Linux due to Steam/Proton…such a great feeling to finally be completely rid of Windows!
Bring back support for Windows 7 and Windows 10 will die overnight.
Windows media center alone is worth resurrecting win7 for.
Honestly the experience of Jellyfin, Tvheadend and Kodi is these days nicer than MCE ever was
Does the tv tuner and tv guide work? I tried a few alternatives a few years back and they were garbo. Wmc always just worked.
I get over the air guide in tvheadend, but you can configure it to pull xml based guides off the internet if you prefer.
Every person I’ve talked to IRL about Windows misses Windows 7. We didn’t realize how good we had it. Oh well, I’ll just switch to Linux
Honestly, Windows 7 is an ergonomic nightmare for many modern users, me included.
I’m too spoiled with Windows 10/11 and Linux with KDE/Budgie.
Hmm, because no workspaces? Can’t think of much else they changed since then…
Rather a flat minimalist design that is easier to navigate and less distractive. Also tiles and other elements that allow for quicker inspection.
Co pilot? Please leave that garbage off my pc
My set up comfortably plays cyberpunk at dead fancy settings, but doesn’t meet the system requirements for windows 11.
Yeah, I’m going to rub out windows 10 as long as I can (although I dual boot Debian anyway).
That’s why it is stubbonky popular.
rub out Windows 10
Whatever is your kink, bro.
I mean, I did mean run but also, yes, windows 10 is hot AF.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
And last November, Microsoft decided to release a fairly major batch of Windows 10 updates that introduced the Copilot chatbot and other changes to the aging operating system.
Per usual for Windows Insider builds, Microsoft may choose not to release all new features that it tests, and new features will be released for the public version of Windows 10 “when they’re ready.”
One thing this new beta program doesn’t change is the end-of-support date for Windows 10, which Microsoft says is still October 14, 2025.
Microsoft says that joining the beta program doesn’t extend support.
Beta program or no, we still wouldn’t expect Windows 10 to change dramatically between now and its end-of-support date.
We’d guess that most changes will relate to the Copilot assistant, given how aggressively Microsoft has moved to add generative AI to all of its products.
The original article contains 445 words, the summary contains 140 words. Saved 69%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
Probably a sad attempt at adding “shiny” features to get people to upgrade to 11 once updates are no longer published for 10?
“We’ll get people hooked on these shiny features, 90% of which are not interesting. Then we’ll pull the update rug from under them. And bingo, they’ll upgrade!!”
Probably more like, “we’ll make Windows 10 indistinguishable from Windows 11, at which point people will have no reason to stick with Windows 10” (unless their computers can’t update to Windows 11, like my laptop)
Or maybe I’m just showing that I know nothing about how updates work and that I perhaps shouldn’t be commenting in a technology community…
They’re going to add things that make it worse and slower until you finally get fed up with it.
Your last paragraph probably applies to me too.
Technically win 11 has the same main version number to win 10. They’re essentially different UIs with extra features in 11. There’s no technical reason why anything in 11 can’t be backported to 10 unless it requires a TPM (maybe)
Even 11 doesn’t require a TPM if you know what you’re doing.
windows is now just a joke.
embrace the windows 7
This message was sposored by United Botnets of Eurasia
Well it’s only Windows that’s complaining it can’t install Windows 11 on my Windows 10 laptop. I’m not mothballing perfectly good hardware just because Microsoft is having a tantrum.
Remember to switch to Linux once it reaches end of life so you don’t risk your security
No… we’re good…
How much you wanna bet Recall gets added to Win10 as well?
No you shut your whore mouth.
Some of us rely on windows only software and dont have the option to run linux or other OS’s
Oh man, I obviously don’t want that, because there’s gonna be companies and organizations and whatnot handling my data with a non-hardened Windows 10, but I’d still grab some popcorn and watch all the security and data protection people explode.
Windows 10 as is, was already a massive shitshow. The German Federal Office for Information Security started a guide for hardening Win10 and they very deliberately chose a name that would abbreviate to SySiPHuS, because I imagine, they never expected to see the end of it.
Now, that end would be in order, at the very least, because the worse Win11 should be taking over. And to then have Microsoft chip in a new massive security hole, making them update their guides and all the hardened systems once more, that certainly has some incendiary potential. 🙃
