Israel has a reckoning coming. The mercy they have shown is the mercy they will receive. I wish they would stop.
This goes to show that Israel could have taken out Hezbollah leadership at any time… there was no need to raze Palestine other than to move people out so that Israelis can move in and rebuilt.
Israel has assassinated a staggering number of high ranking Hamas officials, less so for Hezbollah but their leadership has also been targeted
Hezbollah is not Hamas.
Aren’t you confusing Hezbollah with Hamas though?
Shit, you’re right… thanks, I’ve corrected it because my point still stands.
does it still stand? are Hamas using the same supply chain of altered pagers?
signs point to no.
Yes, it still stands… if Mossad is able to get to Hezbollah’s leadership that completely, I think they are likely more than capable of doing the same with Hamas’ leadership.
I’m sure Israel caught a lucky break through whoever they had in Taiwan, to get this opportunity.
He did. But the proponents of Greater Israel do actually include Lebanon. They also include Jordan, Syria, parts of Egypt, Parts of Saudi Arabia, and parts of Iraq.
This ideology is dominant in the ruling party of Israel.
Anyone else confused about how these bombs are actually detonating? Articles say they are detonating via a text message sent 3x in error, theoretically causing either a spark or a “closed circuit” like a different article explained. The article (from al jazeera) says they have to look at the message but there’s video of one igniting in a bag.
I’m curious because I think these pagers may actually constitute a public safety risk, similar to how heavily landmined areas risk exploding even decades later on someone unrelated to the initial conflict.
Nothing in an electronic device, save for a very overvolted capacitor, could come anywhere near to as explosive as these were. Even LiPo batteries don’t explode like that.
These were explosives planted in the devices when being manufactured.
Not sure if you’ve seen videos of the explosions or the aftermath.
Both, al jazeera source says the explosive inside is PETN. What I’m asking is how tf did text messages and whatever in the walkie talkies ignite a spark strong enough to ignite the PETN? Is that true? Or is it possible some of these are still live or ignited in a faulty way? What is the risk to the public?
Afaik such an idea was nonsense previously. Why are we taking their word that this is sophisticated at any level when they’ve been simply brutal up to now?
What I’m asking is how tf did text messages and whatever in the walkie talkies ignite a spark strong enough to ignite the PETN?
Pager with firmware that activates an output on date/time X/Y and triggers an ignition signal. That signal is sent o an actual detonator in the device, which sets off the explosive.
Radio with DTMF receiver that activates an output when, for example, touchtone 4 is received over the air, or alternatively if the radio has GPS, another date/time activation via firmware.
Both of these things are relatively trivial for a nation-state to pull off.
So yes, in both cases it’s possible that faulty devices are still around. However, if all the rest of your group has had exploding pagers and radios, most people in the same group would have dropped their still-working pager or radio into a bucket of water by now. There’s probably a few, and they’re probably being carefully taken apart right now to see how it was done.
Afaik such an idea was nonsense previously.
It’s not nonsense, it just takes planning and resources. And now that people know it is possible, buying and using any sort of equipment for your group without having the nagging concern there might be a bomb in it is impossible. And that’s a pretty powerful limiter.
This is definitely one of the most interesting attacks that’s ever happened. It certainly doesn’t look like an accident. If it was indeed Mossad: take a bow, you’ve earned it. That was a pretty slick move. That was probably a difficult op to pull off. Gotta respect the craft, even if you disagree on the method.
How exactly did they pull that off? And with walkie-talkies too. There’s no way you can do that with normal RF. The only thing I can figure is they had to intercept the devices and tamper with them in some way.
Its not rocket science how they did it. What is the impressive part? Are we really just going to say civilians don’t matter? Is it impressive to you because of how many people were hurt?
In no way is it required to respect the craft or the method.
I wonder if you wouldve said the same thing about 9/11
9/11 targeted and killed civilians. This attack largely struck Hezbollah militants, who are in open hostilities with Israel. Doing things this way is far better than the seemingly indiscriminate bombing in Gaza.
You know not everyone in Hezbollah is a « militant » right? They have a large political party and civilian governance apparatus. This is terrorism, nothing new to Israel.
And I’m sure Islamic State and the Taliban have non-combatant elements too.
I don’t mind Israel defending against militant groups that fire rockets into Israel. I do mind them carpet-bombing civilian populations. This pager-thing seems to have the hallmarks of an operation that manages to cripple Hezbollah with a minimal loss of life and even fairly low civilian casualties. I much prefer Israel do this over the alternatives.
As does america have non-combat elements too.
The US army does indeed, and they would be valid military targets. People working for the EPA, perhaps not so much. Hezbollah however is structured towards support for the militant arm, as the Lebanese government handles civilian tasks.
Well it seems its up to the attacker to decide what is considered valid military targets. Al Qaeda viewed 9/11 as a valid military target.
Indiscriminate killing is always bad, no matter how targeted you think it is. In this case it was mass maiming, oh and a few kids died right? That’ll teach em to stop being bad people won’t it!
Militants specifically use these pagers for security and stealth. Everyone else just uses phones.
It’s a brilliant way to target only combatants, and also expose them to their friends and neighbours. This attack is incredibly disruptive with very little collateral damage compared to alternatives.
And yes, it’s terrorism, an attack meant to inspire terror and disrupt communication networks with a chilling effect much larger than the actual damage. However it’s interesting as unlike most terrorism it does not target civilians.
It’s also terrifying to think we are living in a world where a malicious component attack is a legitimate concern. This is one of those moments that change the world - I’m sure every industry is thinking about the danger of their foreign supply chain right now.
unlike most terrorism it does not target civilians.
Also, unlike most of the IDF attacks.
IDF is closer to waffen SS than a terror cell…
Oh so everyone there who had a pager must have been a bad guy. Got it, solid logic. Can’t wait for the war to spread further.
To take this to it’s logical extreme, how do you feel about assassination attempts on high ranking Nazi officials? They’re non combatants, after all.
I was about to say, they’re fucked in the head, but goddamn that was ingenious.
Is this a cyberattack, or pre-planted explosives?
My dad used to have one and it runs on single AA bsttery. It will burn if exploded but I doubt will that make “man fell on the groud bleeding.” Newer models might use recharable batteries, yet the BMC (logically thinking) should be sperated from the communication part as charging have nothing to do with it. How are you going to use SMS to hack a part of the system which isn’t connected?
If it is pre-planted explosives, that’s just wet work and nothing to talk about it.
Of course, the attacker can do a supply chain attack (by threating/hacking the manufacture, excluding explosives) as a stage to make the cyberattack possible.
NYT has a link up which it claims has been verified. It is a video of someone at a market who had one of these in their messenger bag. The video shows a decent size explosion, which blew a big hole in the bag and knocked the guy to the ground.
I doubt you could make an explosion that big with a AA battery. They must have planted the stuff in some massive supply chain hack.
Given how targeted the attacks were at certain people, does this imply a bunch of people walking around with explosives in their pagers, where they weren’t set off because they weren’t one of the targets?
NYT says this switch to pagers has been recent, after the Oct 7 attacks last year, when Hezbollah suspected that Israel was spying on the cell network, and using it to locate targets for strikes. So all these pagers got distributed to Hezbollah-affiliated people in short order . This system doesn’t use commercial networks, and has been called a “closed” network by the NYT.
If all that is true, then that means anyone with one of these closed-network pagers got it from being involved with Hezbollah in the first place.
Oh wow, that’s quite… something.
Yep, all the electrical engineers who have chimed in say it looks more like explosives.
A battery would get hot and start a fire. It wouldn’t instantly explode like this.
I cannot imagine how you’d cause this via a cyberattack. I’m sure they manipulated the devices somehow. Crazy move though. I struggled reading the first headline (not this one), because I just could not fathom that they mean actual literal pagers.
Yeah this is what I’m confused about. In a lot of simpler devices like this the BMS is actually a daughter board and has no physical connectivity to the main circuits at all. And even if it had access you generally do not have the capacity to rewrite its code, because again code updating is not something that was ever expected.
“Exploded” always sounded like an adorable little kid word to me, like “He hitted me!?”
Thanks for sharing.
Anytime 💅
Hey @oberstoffensichtlich@feddit.org, you were saying that “these were extremely surgical strikes, people in the vicinity weren’t harmed”?
Thousands of people injured, all guilty of something ofc, because Israel would never do an attack which might harm innocents. Right? /S
fairly sure hezbollah has more than 2800 members
You’re genuinely pathetic enough to try and imply that none of the victims are innocent?
I loathe “people” like you.
I think they’re implying this mostly hit Hezbollah members, not than none of the victims were innocent.
That said, you do know Hezbollah is basically the same as Israel, just without the backing of the USA, right? They also want genocide. The way this was dealt with was one of the best options when dealing with a group that wants to genocide your country. It also shows Israel chose to start the war with Hamas, and likely allowed the October 7 attack to happen, if they’ve had this capability all along.
The dad who’s girl died literally brought this on himself. He chose religious fanaticism over family. He’s in Lebanon, not Gaza, not West Bank - he could have chosen not to be part of a group that wants to wipe out a whole nother group. This is on him the same way it’s on an antivaxxer when they’re kid gets sick. There’s plenty of damn good reasons to wish Netanyahu dead and in hell, but this ain’t one. I doubt him and his right wing extremist possé came up with this operation since they would have deliberately chosen something with way more innocent casualties.
I think they’re implying this mostly hit Hezbollah members, not than none of the victims were innocent.
Based on… what exactly?
The clear implication is that “number of Hezbollah member > victims = no innocent victims.”
And then you instantly jump into defending genocide. Holy fucking shit I honestly can’t communicate with words how disgustingly pathetic I find that.
No, I’m not gonna engage with your whataboutism and start arguing with you about how “Hezbollah deserved this absolutely pathetic terrorist attack.”
“Brought it on himself brought it on himself”
You fuckers still haven’t realised that Hammurabi’s law makes the whole world blind, huh? That was almost 4000 years ago, ffs. Read a book, preferably a modern one and not some tome of propaganda from thousands of years ago.
You’re literally defending the death of a 9-year old girl. You have to be sick in the fucking head to do that. Honestly.
Bud Hezzbollah ordered 3,000 pagers for it’s members specifically because they were moving away from cell phones.
How much more targeted do you want? I remember my first war.
“How much more targeted”
Than indiscriminate bomb attacks at population centers?
VERY much more targeted. This is no more accurate than looking at a phone book for addresses that people who may or may not have been associated with Hezbollah at some point and then bombing those apartment buildings, not caring who else lives there.
There are rules about war. Rules which you clearly have no idea of. No matter how despicable a terrorist organisation is, it doesn’t mean it’s morally okay for you to stoop to theirs fucking level.
Israel is a member of the UN, and has promised to obey these international laws as a part of the global community. If they want to say “fuck you we’re allowed to kill however many civilians we happen to fucking kill with whatever flimsy excuse we may have”, then soon Israel won’t be a respected member of the global community, but another shitty terrorist state that everyone despises.
Is that what Israel said? No.
98% of Gaza is still alive after one year of all this indiscriminate bombing and genocide.
There’s a very obvious reason why the civilian death toll and Gaza is so high and it’s because that is the strategy of Hamas, to purposefully raise that number. They have literally no other leverage then to try and get as many people as possible killed while the elite Gazan’s hide underground, and run to the ICJ and claim war crimes. Remember that first week of airstrikes last October, when Hamas launched a social media campaign to convince people that the evacuation warnings and airstrike warnings were a hoax?
Look how well it is working on you. Why are you siding with the view taken by Iran, Qatar, Malaysia, Turkey, Jordan, Hamas, Islamic Jihad, and Islamic State, all of them led by far right nationalists, dictators and monarchs, against the view taken by America, Canada, Australia, Japan, and France? That’s not a red flag to you that maybe your moral compass has led you astray?
Maybe you’re right, and you think the west should abandon Israel. You think they’re just going to let their flawed democracy be taken over by insane religious fascists from Iran? No. Israel will turn Iran into a sheet of glass before they let Iranian soldiers March into Jerusalem. Tens of millions of people will die.
How sad are you going to be when Middle East states start attacking Israel and the resulting humanitarian and refugee crisis results in 50,000 people dying by lunch time, day in day out, for months or years?
I bet you’ll be so sad that you won’t even be able to post TikToks about it.
And you should read Popper’s Paradox of Tolerance.
Eye for an eye makes the world go blind only works when one party doesn’t exist solely to exterminate another.
That’s what Hezbollah is.
I have never defended genociders - you on the other hand keep defending Hezbollah.
The world needs to deal with Hezbollah the same way it needs to deal with Zionism and the same way it eventually dealt with the Nazis.
Tell me dumbass, do you think Netanyahu and co. will stop his campaign on Gaza if everyone decided not to retaliate? Or would he just order his men to take advantage of the situation and shoot them down? Do you think the Nazis or any other group, such as Hezbollah, intent on genocide would accept peace?
Of course ideally such corrupt evil fucks could be eliminated with no innocent casualties. But that’s unfortunately not the way the world works. Do you think innocent casualties didn’t occur when other fascist evils were fought? You think only military personnel were killed in WW2?
You’re either a naïve kid, or have thought up of miracle solution like a death note.
This was a case of monsters fighting monsters; we’re lucky that this at least was an actual very precise strike one monster did to the others, rather than their usual M.O. of just striking buildings with missiles.
Naive kid.
You’re seriously saying “they deserve the ‘eye-for-an-eye’ treatment” while Israel is actively escalating the conflict?
I have never defended genociders
Oh okay. So where have I done that? In assuming that 3000 civilians who were harmed weren’t exclusively Hezbollah? Which would be an utterly ridiculous claim seeing how many literal children there are involved.
So… you’ve never defended genociders. Then let’s see if you will. Is Israel committing a genocide in Gaza?
You think only military personnel were killed in WW2?
I’ve actually been in the military and have had training on what is and isn’t legal to do in armed conflict. Have you?
https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/en/customary-ihl/v1/rule12
Rule 12. Definition of Indiscriminate Attacks
Rule 12. Indiscriminate attacks are those: (a) which are not directed at a specific military objective;
(b) which employ a method or means of combat which cannot be directed at a specific military objective; or
© which employ a method or means of combat the effects of which cannot be limited as required by international humanitarian law; and consequently, in each such case, are of a nature to strike military objectives and civilians or civilian objects without distinction.
They limited the attacks by replacing the pagers ordered by Hezzbollah, not the pagers ordered by anyone.
Are you dense?
Which country’s military? Because I’m more than willing to bet your country has killed innocents too, even if by accident. Depending on the country, like the USA, deliberately killing them too. Congratulations on choosing to actively participating in that horridness I suppose.
Is Israel committing a genocide in Gaza?
I see you weren’t the reading comprehension guy in the military. But since you need it directly spelled out for your crayon eating ass to understand - yes, the Israeli government is committing genocide. You know who else is trying their hand at Genocide? Hezbollah.
But hey, while we have ‘holier than thou’ ex-military on the line, how about a bit of a trolley problem for you:
If you could dispose of Netanyahu along with the top heads of his genocidal campaign, at the cost of 10 children, would you? And just to make it even easier on you, let’s add that doing so will end Israel’s current war and genocide campaign too.
Whats scarey here is the amount if energy stored in smart phones. Pagers hold a fraction of the energy and the application here to the smart phone is the same.
If you see the video there is no way a battery behaves like that, even if you drive a nail into them they more rocket flames than explode (I used to work in a battery lab).
I should clarify, typical cells won’t explode, you could defeat safety features for pressure release in a can cell but at that effort they would have just added something more energetic.
I doubt the lab experience.
Lithium ion batteries do explode, off-gassing and pressure alone can do significant damage when contained. While typically closer to a thermite reaction, conditions determine damage which have been killing people from either heat or poisonous gas. I can point to state occuption work regulators that have a documented case of an explosion while plenty of deaths from battery fires can be found in the news.
I read in a NYT headline that they were pagers with explosives added in.
Here’s the article I saw but didn’t read.
Upvoted for the honesty
Damn. This must be one of the most terrifying cyber attacks of all time. Like, Mr. Robot level of breach and execution.
In that show they rig the UPS batteries of server buildings to blow up, this is basically the same idea on a smaller scale.
Either that, or they compromised the manufacturer of the pagers and put small explosive devices in there. Truly legendary and insane.
Its stuxnet like
cyber attack ? Lol
That will give a lot of idea to other people maybe soon having a phone on you will be a big risk
They’ve done a similar thing at a smaller scale with individual phones in the past. What is different is this time it’s not targeted at a specific person and instead involves thousands of devices going off simultaneously. It’s not a big risk unless you have nation state level threats up against you because it’s hard to pull off, they have to get a functioning device with explosives in it into the hands of the target and the effort involved in doing that is significant.
I am surprised the name of the manufacture is not out. This basically raise privacy concern.
They were on TV over here (Portugal) doing a press conference were they explained the devices were made in Hungary by a company which licensed the brand name from them (a Taiwanese company) so the manufacturer’s name (which I totally forgot) is definitely out.
and now Hezbollah will be frightened to touch anything at all
Yeah, I’ve been wondering how the fuck they pulled this off. If it turns out that the only pagers that exploded belonged to Hezbollah members, then that would signal to me that this was done entirely digitally.
I’ve heard that batteries (can’t remember if it was laptop or phone batteries) contain the energy of a small grenade, but getting it to release that energy all at once without physical access is absolutely fucking wild and has serious fucking implications for device security.
Getting batteries to release energy isn’t very difficult, even getting them to release it quickly isn’t very difficult. What’s difficult is getting them to release it over the course of a few milliseconds. Which is what you would need for an explosion.
If the battery simply dumped all its power over the course of 30 seconds that’s basically just a fire that you can run away from.
Also I wouldn’t have thought a pager had that much charge, I wouldn’t have thought this sort of thing would be possible as they would tend to just go off with a loud bang, assuming you could even get them to release all the energy at once l, which again I wouldn’t have thought was possible.
For fairly obvious reasons I don’t think we’re ever going to find out how this was done.
Maybe there will be a faulty one laying somwhere now thrown away by the owner? That will be nice for analysis.
I’ll save you time. Compromised licensed factory in Europe, making Chinese beepers, was compromised or owned by Israel. They then put explosives in the pagers and set them to explode when paged a certain code.
They knew hezbollah was the purchaser, and would disperse them amongst its members.
I think its stupid unless it stopped some imminent horrible attack. Otherwise, Israel has given themselves away, and only killed 8 people for it. Maybe they had trouble rigging them to steal their communications.
It wasn’t “stupid”. As a psy-op, it further complicates Hezbollah’s communications, sows fear among Hezbollah members, demonstrates Israel’s far-reaching capabilities, makes civilians suspicious of Hezbollah officials, etc. If Israel does something similar a couple more times, Hezbollah will have to resort to bicycle couriers and smoke signals.
It also undermines Hezbollah’s credibility. The Lebanese people are not stupid. They know that Hezbollah is a shadow government allowing Iran to control Lebanon and use it as a staging ground for attacks on Israel. That leaves Lebanon in a permanent state of semi-war with Israel, not to mention its involvement in multiple other external conflicts. None of which is helpful for the health and prosperity of Lebanon.
Lebanon is a natural trading nation and always has been. It is a beautiful country full of kind people with excellent commercial instincts. They are held down as a nation by the fact that Hezbollah has turned the country into a pawn of the Ayatollah.
Thats a fair opinion, although I think its likely to cause the opposite reactions than you listed. But again, who really knows.
Also I’m sure most people in most places are good people, just like anywhere, Lebanon included.
Good point. I should have qualified what I said by saying that the Israeli operation may have the effects I listed. But, as you say, it might backfire and have the opposite of the intended effect. I guess that is always a risk with these types of operations.
Maybe the truth is both will happen, but its not clear which would be the majority opinion, or the opinion of those in power.
The obvious solution is to just procure their equipment from China only as they are naturally not allied with Israel if only because geostrategicaly they’d adversaries of the top Israeli ally, the US.
Given the indiscriminate nature of this attack this might imply purchasing decisions all over the World from much more than merely “members of groups deemed terrorist by the US”.
Well sure. Modern war is all about adaptation. Exploding pagers were never going to be a knock-out blow, just a clever psy-op. One among many, I’m sure.
The point being that sometimes things that look “clever” if you only look at the obvious primary effects are not at all clever when you also consider secondary effects.
If only when it comes to “ease of eavesdropping” it might very well be in the best long term interest of the Israeli Security Services that the rest of the World keeps on acquiring Made In Europe and Made In US devices which this action will likely impact (one thing are accusations of “backdoors” in certain devices a whole different thing is seeing on TV a mass attack were a batch of devices all made in a nation allied with Israel contained explosives and that were detonated in all manner of arbitrary places hitting thousands of arbitrary people).
Then there’s the possible impact on Israeli Allies’ exports of electronics given these pagers were specifically manufactured in Hungary (a very strong ally of Israel) by a company licensing the brand name - is it really a good idea for anybody in a political, state or security position in any nation not allied with Israel to buy any device with remote access capabilities from made in any nation allied with Israel or with a significant part of the supply chain passing thorugh one of those nations. If they’re willing to have explosives put in them and detonated in the middle of crowds of civilians, what else are they willing to do - it’s the same reason why buying Security Software from an Israeli company is extremelly stupid for any company (even in allied nations) only now Electronics is also included, there’s very obvious proof that they will do just about anything (rather than merelly an unproven risk of industrial espionage) and the risk also includes things sourced from nations allied with Israel.
Time will tell just how big those two classes of secondary and tertiary effects really are.
Mind you, as I see it anybody who gets in bed with ethno-Fascists like the Zionists deserves all the damage that comes from them having no limits whatsoever to what they’ll do.
When I say “clever”, I dont necessarily mean it was a good move toward their long-term goals. I mean that it was ingenious and skillfully executed, requiring the coordination of many parts, and displaying deft trade craft.
Frankly, arguing whether “ethno-fascist Zionists” or “Muslim fundamentalists” are worse is kind of pointless. Neither is high on the list of things I support.
Most Israelis are not “ethno-fascist Zionists” any more than most Gazans or Lebanese, or even Iranians, are Muslim fundamentalist theocrats. All of those populations are caught in bad situations that were set in motion decades ago. On balance, if forced to choose a side to support, I would support Israel, like most other Westerners. At least they have a functioning democracy and largely adhere to Western values. The Israeli religious right wing is extremely problematic, of course, but it looks to me like they are headed for defeat in the next election. We can’t say the same about Hezbollah or the Iranian theocracy or any of Iran’s other proxies.
The bottom line is: FUCK ALL RELIGIOUS FUNDAMENTALISM. Doesn’t matter whether it is Muslim, Jewish, Christian, or Hindu. They all suck.
Specifically in Hungary, same country that has been voting with Israel in the UN and also has a Fascist government.
It sure makes manufacturing involving explosives much more easily to go ahead if the local government has approved of it.
I’m curious what this will do to the “Made In EU” brand in the rest of the World.
There was already an article I saw saying it will have a chilling affect on western electronics to at least some degree.
More like stuxnet level !
Probably not. It was almost certainly the case that these pagers were already connected to explosives, probably to be IEDs. All Israel would have had to do is page the pagers to detonate them. I can’t think of any other logical explanation.
I don’t think the thousands of pagers built this way really count as “improvised.”
That being said, it makes me wonder if this went in any way according to plan - 8 deaths and 2750 injuries is a large scale attack, don’t get me wrong. But they’ve now announced Mossad has compromised the supplier of the pager, which they will undoubtedly audit, and instill new policies on device security. I wouldn’t be surprised if that means they discover a lot more compromised electronics, allowing Hezbollah to pinpoint the compromise. Because 2750 survived, you now have 2750 people very interested in finding it.
In all, for 8 deaths, they’ve made their own work harder.
That being said 2750 injuries could be a large enough number to scare members out of the org.
I heard they recently switched to pagers because cell phones where deemed to be compromised. So I think besides the direct deaths and injuries, this attack also targeted lines of communication and trust in technology as a whole (or anything supplied by your superior even).
Yeah, that’s what I read too. It’s a smart way to force the weaponized pagers into the hands of your enemies.
Also sort of shows the attack wasn’t too sophisticated. Mossad might not even have compromised the cell phones, they just fed bad intelligence to whoever and they had a likely supplier already compromised.
In all - it doesn’t look too good for any intelligence personnel in Hezbollah.
If those pagers had explosives, I wonder if the explosives were put there as a sabotage or for “destroy if found” functionality
Perhaps the latter? My first thought is still that the pagers intended use was for triggering explosives, and they were simply triggered early by the other side.
You would not put it inside the pager if you want to use it as a trigger. You would also not ready-make thousands of those and let thousands of people carry them around.
no way it was just the batteries.
batteries burn but don’t detonate with shrapnel
it was altered devices with explosives added.
Yeah they got into the supply route and added c4 to all those pagers. Makes me wonder how many pagers or smartphones have added explosives still.
There are several reports that the devices were made with the explosives built-in.
According to the spokesperson of the Taiwanese brand in a press conference, those were all devices produced by a Hungarian licensee of the brand.
Hungary, you know, been voting with Israel in the UN and also has a Fascist government which is massivelly racist against Arabs.
Kind makes sense that those things were manufactured in a country very friendly of Israel and with their authorization, already with the explosis built-in.
The interesting second and third level effects to consider of this are around the impact on things like Globalization (if having to start paying attention to the alliances of the countries the stuff you buy comes from the places which are part of a supply chain stop being irrelevant) and even brand licensing (that Taiwanese company will have their name pop-up associated with this in every single internet search from now on)
Also curious about what will this to to “Made in EU” - Hungary might just have screwed the rest of us much more than ever before.
Mass producing disguised explosives is risky business.
Obviously they wanna price them low, to attract buyers in the target market. But if you price them too low, they become an opportunity for middlemen to resell to another market.
And now you’ve spread several batches of explosives to who-knows-where.
Hopefully they thought of that and restricted the detonation trigger to specific country codes. But that doesn’t erase the fact that there are explosives in the device.
This made me think that the whole unofficial production of everyday devices with explosives in Hungary was a great opportunity for well connected Hungarian criminals wanting to get their hands on what are probably military explosives which is typically highly controlled stuff hence valuable.
I’m wondering if some of the stuff which was suppsed to have been used for this won’t pop-up elsewhere in the EU in the hands of some criminal group, possibly even used for a terror attack.
The possible implications of this shit just keep in getting better and better.
Yeah… What a mess. A horrible, horrible idea.
Shrapnel, no, but Lithium-Ion does explode. Especially on a full charge
No way did lithium batteries kill eight people.
I did not say they did, but they can explode violently
Cool video. But that looks like what I expected. The videos of the pagers are small direct explosions and not really the heavy flame and smoke of the videos.
That powerbank in the bus… whoa… and those guys with the ebike in the elevator… stuff of nightmares.
Yeah, being trapped in a lift with a burning Ebike battery sounds like not much fun at all.
As someone who’s accidentally punctured a large lithium ion battery with 100% charge I can tell you that explode isn’t exactly the right word. While I’m sure you could create an enclosure that could explode from the pressure, the battery itself just kinda shoots out a small jet of fire along with some toxic gas.
They have over-pressure vents and will vent pretty violently and catch fire, but should not explode due to pressure build up.
They still explode in some cases. Plenty of clips of li-ion not just catching fire but exploding similar to how a firework might explode.
College campuses across the US/Canada will be holding memorial services, no doubt.
I’m no fan of Hezbollah but how is this different than spreading land mines? Even if you kill civilians in an air strike at least you can claim there were enemy combatants there. Here it is just “Eh, we’ll just kill people at random and see what happens.”
These were pagers specifically ordered by Hezbollah. Random civilians wouldn’t have had them.
One of the deaths was a kid
How many injuries, I wonder.
It is extremely cool that we continue to take “Everyone wounded by these pagers was Hezbollah” at face value once again.
This, from the same organization that bombed hospitals, schools, and refugee camps while insisting every one of them was a Hamas command center.
So that kid was Hezbollah too then?
Has that been verified?
Of course not.
Ah, yes, the 2758 people were all Hezbollah.
Most likely most of them were though. I mean I don’t think many people outside Hezbollah were using pagers, not to mention that most likely they tampered one or two batches of them only.
I am just wondering what the official government of Lebanon is thinking about this incident because in my opinion that’s a huge blow into the sovereignty of a foreign country. Imagine something similar happens in Israel or the US, do you think those countries would sit on the diplomatic table and negotiate?
They’re already at war though.
The problem with explosions is that they injure everyone nearby, not just the person with the explosion in their pocket.
You can look up the videos. People standing three feet away are fine while the person with the pager is down for the count. Innocents are always harmed in war, but this was about as precise and just a strike as humanly possible.
I’m sure that’ll make that girl’s friends and remaining family feel much better.
The explosions had to happen at the same time to be effective, and so people who were being attacked were in a variety of places. Detonating explosives in an uncontrolled variety of public places is not precise.
Agree, but the explosive inside is very low, so the damage is mostly going to be inflicted on the person who this pager belonged to. From the initial reports all the casualties were linked to Hezbollah and even the girl was a daughter of a member of Hezbollah.
Me personally, I don’t defend the actions of Israel, but still think it is a lot more targeted than dropping 2000lbs. bombs over densely populated areas. Another question is of course if this will achieve anything other than strengthening the resolve of those people.
Unfortunately, nowadays to win a war, you simply need to be the richer and more advanced nation, and Israel has the upper hand here.
That “even the girl was a daughter of a member of Hezbollah” part got me very angry.
Kids don’t deserve to get blown up, even if their parents are mass murderers.
Most would blame the mass murdering parent for endangering the child.
I have never said that. What Israel is doing geopolitically is a grave mistake and would ultimately give birth to a lot more terrorists that they will kill ultimately and won’t lead to any long lasting peaceful solution in the region. And all this is happening with the silent endorsement of the West, which is even more disturbing.
Thousands of peoples were wounded. And by the nature of a pager you do wear them when out and about and not only at the HQ
That’s still a lot more targeted than the air strike example.
There’s thousands of Hezbollah militants as well. We don’t know yet exactly how targeted the attack was.
Regardless “only” 9 people died so far. Thousands were wounded, but that’s much better than land mines would’ve been. This attack was extraordinarily targeted, and despite there being civilians hurt, they’re likely to be less hurt than the militants and unlikely to be among the dead. Every civilian death is a tragedy, but Hezbollah and Israel are in an armed conflict. Some civilian deaths are unavoidable. I much prefer Israel do this than the indiscriminate bombing on Gaza.
None dare call it Terrorism.
Why is it okay for them to bomb Lebanon as well?
Because Arab lives have no value in Israeli society.
Because Arab lives have no value in
Israeliwestern society.FTFY.
To be fair, Jewish lives also only matters to the west if they are busy murdering brown people.
Terrorism, in its broadest sense, is the use of violence against non-combatants to achieve political or ideological aims.
While it’s likely there were civilians hurt by this, the target was undeniably Hesbollah. So no, not terrorism.
Israel is a terrorist organization. Radical, fundamentalist Jewish terrorism.
In other words, Israel’s very existence is an act of terrorism.
Likely because the bulk of those wounded by this attack were not Hezbollah
I don’t even know how you’d reasonably expect to only injure your targets in an attack as widespread and remote as this one. Seems blatantly indiscriminate at best.
Likely because the bulk of those wounded by this attack were not Hezbollah
What makes you think that? These pagers were bought by Hesbollah to be used by their guys.
Because anyone within 5 meters of the pager also was hurt.
Uhhh, because these were bombs - bombs that were remotely and indiscriminately detonated. Some of the people were driving, some standing next to children or on busses full of people. There are reports of children who died because they were standing next to a target at head-level with the pager.There’s no guarantee they were even being carried by “Hezbollah’s guys”.
I don’t even know why anyone would assume otherwise. This was a loosely targeted terror attack
It’s a war who tf is giving guarantees?
This is some seriously delusional thinking as to how the world works.
It’s a matter of probsbility.
Someone didn’t read the parent comment.
These pagers were bought by Hesbollah
All we know is that a bunch of exploding pagers were distributed through Lebanon. The IDF claims they were given to Hezbollah agents, but they’ve been caught lying regularly.
Delete this post as mis info.
At least 12 people were killed after the attacks,[60][1][61] and more than 2,750 were wounded.[5][6] Civilians were also killed,[10][13][14] including four healthcare workers[62] and two children.[63] It is not clear if only Hezbollah members were carrying the pagers.[19] Lebanese Health Minister Firass Abiad said the vast majority of those being treated in emergency rooms were in civilian clothing and their Hezbollah affiliation was unclear.[64] He added the casualties included elderly people as well as young children. According to the Lebanese Health Ministry, healthcare workers were also injured and it advised all healthcare workers to discard their pagers.[64][65]
Stunning that you’re being downvoted. This was a brilliant attack on a group that actually attacks Israel actually indiscriminately on the daily.
National order isnt based on tit for tat. If someone commits a war crime against you it doesnt mean you get to do it too.
In my opinion the time of day they chose to blow them shows they wanted as much collateral damage as they could.
What’s the advantage of making excuses for committing war crimes?
At a certain point it stops being worth it. If sending a brainwashed 11 yo to blow up a checkpoint means you can no longer trust having any technology near you, your family and friends it might cause hesitation.
Wishful thinking, they aren’t fighting because they want to. Noone likes violence.
Ah, you see it from Israel’s POV. Interesting.
No I’m saying it won’t stop the fighting because its not a choice they can make. Theres either negotiation or fighting but negotiation only works from equal footing. I don’t like violence and war of course but its not the fault of the group with less bargaining power. The larger group needs to give up power willingly to fix anything. Russia to Ukraine, Israel to Palestine and Lebanon.
Is there any time of day it’s not atrocious? Seems like any time would have basically equal risk for collateral casualties.
To be effective it all had to be at once. It seems that they waited until the pagers were being used to coordinate a fresh wave of rocket attacks with promises of more to come before setting them off.
Is there any time of day it’s not atrocious? Seems like any time would have basically equal risk for collateral casualties.
Then maybe it shouldn’t be done at all.
Maybe nobody should fight wars ever. Grow up.
Maybe all an army has to do to take over the entire world is being their families to the front. Can’t shoot back at them because their families are there. So they pretty much win every engagement. Problem solved. No more wars.
And you are saying noone is allowed to fight on their own land, as it endangers the public.
Because that time of day is when the most people will be out in public. It seems deliberately designed to cause as much damage as widely as possible. Likely to cause fear in the population.
They put explosives in the pagers but no shrapnel, so how does your conclusion make sense? If Israel wanted to simply cause mass damage, this would be a most incompetent way to do it.
They wanted to cause fear, which is terrorism.
I would agree with this if they somehow only harmed Hezbollah severely. That was not the case.
I agree, but it’s still a step up from dropping a laser guided bomb on a 10 storey apartment building because somebody in Hamas might be there.
I guess.
Jews and cops are always in the wrong on this platform.
There you go conflating Jews and Israel. Apart from that you have an arguable point.
Israelis and cops just doesn’t sound as snappy.
It’s less antisemitic though. Please don’t conflate Jewish people with Israel, it’s caused enough problems as it is.
Iran’s ambassador to Lebanon, Mojtaba Amani, was among those injured by the pager explosions on Tuesday, Iran’s Mehr news agency reported.
Attacking ambassadors is a great way to become an international piriah.
What was ambassador doing with Hezbollah exclusive pager?
Hezbollah exclusive? Were the walkie talkies Hezbollah exclusive? They are just devices with a specific function
I refuse to answer such a stupid question.
Talk about working backwards from a conclusion. Can you do the same for the little girl that was also killed? I would be further impressed by your gymnastics to conclude she deserved it as well.
Why did he have the pager tho?
It just says he was injured, which could happen if you were in close proximity to someone wearing one of the pagers. News here showed one of the explosions occurring in a grocery store, with plenty of people nearby, for example.
Ambassador, communication device …
Communication with whom? These pagers were ordered by Hezbollah.
Obviously for getting in touch with them. That’s what ambassadors do. Anyway, doesn’t matter, Israel will never have a use for ambassadors.
an eight-year-old girl was among those killed
And what was she doing with it? /s
Hezbollah is a legitimate political party in Lebanon, with millions of voters.
Political parties don’t launch rockets at neighborhoods…
RIP Taiwanese electronic device export economy.
Removed by mod
…is this an ad?
It was, until the mods got rid of it
(Nvm, it is still there, I forgot I blocked the loser)
Gone now, deleted by moderator
Nice try. I’m not on that website it’ll probably explode.
That’s what they have now exploding websites. I think it’s a CSS attribute.
Great, can’t wait for the conspiracy theories from this one.
