Vegans being banned and comments being deleted from !vegan@lemmy.world for being fake vegans.

From my perspective, the comments were in no way insulting and just part of completely normal interaction. If this decision reflects the general opinion of the mod team, then from my perspective, the biggest vegan community on Lemmy wants to be an elitist cycle of hardcore vegans only, not allowing any slightly different opinion. Which would be very unfortunate.

PS: In contrast to the name of this community, I don’t want to insult anyone here being a ‘bastard’. I just want to post this somewhere on neutral ground. I would really appreciate an open discussion without bashing anyone.

PPS: Some instances or clients seem to compress the screenshots in a way they’re unreadable. Find the full resolution here: https://imgur.com/a/8XdexTm

Linking the affected users and mods: @Cypher@lemmy.world @gaael@lemmy.world @gredo@lemmy.world @iiGxC@slrpnk.net @veganpizza69@lemmy.world @veganpizza69@lemmy.vg @jerkface@lemmy.ca @TheTechnician27@lemmy.world @Sunshine@lemmy.ca @Aqua@lemmy.vg

  • threeduck@aussie.zone
    3·
    2 months ago

    I (a vegan) got banned from there for finding the love of cows cloying. I said we shouldn’t have to pretend cows are cute to convince others not to kill and eat them.

    It really isn’t a place for even back and forth amongst friends, “no conversation - only agreement”

    • CaptPretentious@lemmy.world
      1·
      2 months ago

      cloying

      adjective

      excessively sweet, rich, or sentimental, especially to a disgusting or sickening degree

      Neat, new word.

    • rbn@sopuli.xyzOP
      1·
      2 months ago

      I think cows are adorable (in a positive manner :D) but yes, completely agree. Being a vegan shouldn’t require that you passionately love being in contact with all kinds of species. I mean - despite them playing a role in the ecosystem - who loves ticks or mosquitoes?

        • rbn@sopuli.xyzOP
          2·
          2 months ago

          I’m not sure if there’s any species other than humans that would be considered ‘vegan’. My feeling is that it requires some kind of explicit choice to explicitly go plant-based only despite being able to digest all kind of food. An animal that’s 100% plant-based would be probably rather called herbivore than vegan. But maybe there are also some species or individuals that are exactly like that and we as humans just don’t know about it.

  • I'll be on ShareMySims@lemmy.dbzer0.com@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
    2·
    2 months ago

    Lol, I got my vegan card revoked (declared “a carnist”) and handed my first fedi ban by the “Real Vegans™” too, for daring to call out their bullshit and ableist militant gatekeeping.

    Good luck to them and the toxic cesspit they’re so adamant on maintaining, the last thing anyone should be seeking is these people’s approval, especially not on being a “good” or “real” vegan, since they make it crystal clear that their top priority is and always will be their own egos. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    • Pilferjinx@lemmy.world
      1·
      2 months ago

      Yeah the vegan communities are so toxic that it has turned me off of pursuing an interest into their lifestyle. I want to try out a Buddhist approach to veganism and ignore whatever the hell they’re trying to achieve.

    • Klear@sh.itjust.works
      01·
      2 months ago

      It looks to me the mods there are fake vegans, trying to make as much damage to the cause as possible.

  • rustyfish@lemmy.worldEnglish
    2·
    2 months ago

    This is super weird to me. Back on the Asian ass porn site known as Reddit I could just go into vegan subs and have casual conversations about recipes and cooking techniques. It didn’t matter that I eat meat.

    After the API kerfuffle we all celebrated how friendly the internet can be and now you get preemptively banned because you COULD be a bad actor in disguise.

    To a point I understand the frustration vegans have to live with. The constant childish trolling can be exhausting, but this is pretty much the worst way to handle this.

  • db0@lemmy.dbzer0.comM
    1·
    2 months ago

    Generally very radical vegans also have a right to their own community, however I also think there should be spaces for less radical veganism as well. It seems that currently there’s none of those available, or maybe the general hostility of social media against vegans makes any of their more tolerant spaces eventually close ranks to protect their sanity. Unfortunately vegan spaces are constantly brigaded by trolls so it’s understandable they have a very short fuse, and a lot of people get caught in the cross-fire.

    I think the only solution here would be for a new vegan community with a focus on debate with non-vegans. However it will be tricky to find the right moderators for it who either won’t be non-vegans themselves and therefore support a flood of concern-trolls and bad faith arguments, or be vegans that won’t get immediately burnt out.

    • arcane potato (she/they)@vegantheoryclub.orgEnglish
      0·
      2 months ago

      So, last time people were mad that vegans were mean to them this community got created:

      https://lemmy.world/c/plantbased

      Edit: I should finish my coffee before posting, the only post there literally points to this more active com lol: https://lemmy.world/c/plantbased@lemmy.dbzer0.com

      See: https://lemmy.world/post/23634881

      We all know r/vegan exists and is a cesspit of carnists, but there doesn’t seem to be an actual demand for a ‘plant based’ space. I’m not sure why people would post about something they are kind of meh and not committed to?

      If people are interested in just the food, there are communities for that:

      I really don’t think the rules there are onerous. Just don’t talk about abusing animals and don’t be a jerk to the other posters and you’re good?

      • ComradeMiao@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
        2·
        2 months ago

        Hey, I didn’t make plantbased to be a less committed version to veganism. I made it because from reddit to lemmy every vegan community I’ve encountered has power tripping toxic mods and I wanted to provide an alternative space.

        I’m fully committed to my veganism. But I also wanted people who aren’t to be able to discuss it without being attacked.

        After I wrote this I see you’re writing from a vegan instance. I have less experience with there versus vegan communities around here.

      • Plum@lemmy.world
        0·
        2 months ago

        I’m apparently banned from vegan theory club. I have no idea what I could have done to them.

        • 🏴 hamid the villain [he/him] 🏴@vegantheoryclub.org
          01·
          2 months ago

          Vegan Theory Club is more radical and different in scope. It is definitely not a place to debate veganism. I let them come to my instance after some nonsense about lemmy.world and we’re not federated with lemmy.world. Vegan Theory Club is social media for vegans specifically.

          • Zagorath@aussie.zoneEnglish
            1·
            2 months ago

            It is definitely not a place to debate veganism

            What we see in this post seems to be a debate among vegans about what kinds of places are best to support. Surely that should be welcome in a place called “vegan theory”? It’s a form of “debating veganism”, just not one between vegans and omnivores.

            • 🏴 hamid the villain [he/him] 🏴@vegantheoryclub.org
              01·
              2 months ago

              There is no debating on the side of allowing a restaurant to serve meat on a vegan messaging board. Debating this is missing the point of veganism entirely and my user community understands this and is why they created an account on a small instance like Vegan Theory Club. We are of a similar mind and the club is for people to find people on the same page as them. It works, we have off lemmy resources and an active discord. Veganism isn’t a diet, it is a social justice movement to end the human exploitation of Animals, debating that serving meat is ok would get you banned on my instance as well. Personally I would have shut down a vegan restaurant before introducing meat and reopened as something else.

              I don’t personally eat at non vegan restaurants ever. I almost never go to restaurants at all frankly and prefer potlucks and cooking at our homes when I hang out with my friends. https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/anonymous-prole-info-abolish-restaurants

              • rbn@sopuli.xyzOP
                0·
                2 months ago

                There is no debating on the side of allowing a restaurant to serve meat on a vegan messaging board.

                In an ideal world I’d love to have only vegan restaurants and everyone being vegan globally. As this is not within my power, I am looking for a way that benefits veganism the most.

                I think the easier it gets to be vegan, the more people will get on board. If you get vegan options only in specialized places in big cities, that will make it hard for anyone not living close to that or being part of social cycles not 100% vegan.

                If a purely vegan restaurant survives economically, I am more than happy. But if they don’t, I definitely prefer them to add a few omnivore dishes rather than closing completely and getting replaced by another steakhouse.

                I don’t think having this opinion makes me any kind of bad vegan or fake vegan but I’m happy to hear your points if you think otherwise.

                • arcane potato (she/they)@vegantheoryclub.orgEnglish
                  1·
                  2 months ago

                  I think the piece of information that is being missed is that VTC is inherently anti capitalist and therefore the concept of “supporting businesses” so that they can survive doesn’t really make sense in that context. (See link Hamid posted)

                • 🏴 hamid the villain [he/him] 🏴@vegantheoryclub.org
                  01·
                  2 months ago

                  Veganism is in its core a boycott, so that is the default take. I don’t live in a big city so I don’t go to restaurants. If you read the link I posted, I think there are a lot of problems with restaurants that go beyond veganism and they are offensive to me as an anarchist. I strongly dislike businesses, business owners and I like to do things for myself. To that end the more I lean on a life of compromise the less I feel is being done. By organizing pot lucks, friends dinners, participating in my local Food Not Bombs and promoting home cooking I am building an alternative to the carnist structures in our world that is more meaningful than making an individual decision to go to a carnist business and give them money that they then invest in more carnist businesses. This is also why I don’t really like buying products labeled “vegan” from meat companies or buying impossible burgers from Burger King, we aren’t convincing them to switch, we are participating in horizontal segmentation where they carve out two markets from one that don’t cannibalize each other. I used to have the meeting notes from an shareholder meeting at Burger King where the CEO explains this but I lost it in my international move a few years ago among all my boxes of computer stuff. https://www.investopedia.com/terms/h/horizontalmarket.asp

                  I think adding meat dishes to a vegan restaurant and still calling it vegan is offensive and anti-vegan. If you want to go to restaurants then I guess that is a compromise you have to make for your own reasons but I don’t think that it is vegan decision in scope. I don’t attack people online or in person for it but I don’t think you’d be a good fit for a community of radical vegans and anti capitalists. I probably wouldn’t remove your comments from a message board like he lemmy.world one which is basically a vegan news community and appeals to beginners and transitioners but I would remove it from my instance. There is no requirement to go to restaurants in this world and my life got more interesting when I stopped going to places like that.

                  I think the easier it gets to be vegan, the more people will get on board.

                  But if they are not participating in the vegan boycott, are they on board? I’ve been a vegan for a long time and understand people are at different places, that said the biggest problem is recidivism. The longer you go as a vegan making compromises the less likely that you’re going to stick with it. For me this meant that at one point I needed to actually change my life and social groups to align with what I believe instead of forcing what I believe into a world that doesn’t agree and is hostile. For me this was a good decision, I made new friends, I have new things to do and I’m far more socially active as a mid 40s vegan in my vegan world than most of my old friends and coworkers are.

  • gaael@lemmy.world
    1·
    2 months ago

    Lol found out here that I had been banned from the community. Ty for sharing the information :)

    Regarding the matter, I understand their reaction.
    I’ve been interacting with some vegan circles IRL and some are more “hardcore” (not in a negative way) than others. When you consider animal exploitation as mass slavery, mass torture and mass murder, it becomes increasingly difficult to tolerate even light deviations from the all-vegan path.

    This being said, I would have preferred they had a better wording for the temp ban reason than “fake vegan” by which I feel insulted and hurt.

    • Snot Flickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zoneEnglish
      0·
      2 months ago

      EDIT: It’s pretty telling that everyone is reading this as an excuse to keep murdering instead of accepting that murder is part of being alive. “Life feeds on life.” It is not pretty, it is ugly and dark. What should be taken away is a greater respect for all life and an understanding of what we’re taking when we feed on life. It should be used as a pretext to respect all life and do your best to reduce harm to all life. Whatever life you’re taking should be considered valuable and a sacrifice made. (Mass deforestation to make way for agricultural farming doesn’t just hurt trees, it hurts the animals that live in them and among them, for instance. A soybean farm doesn’t have the same ecological importance as an old growth forest, sorry.) The fact that this view is seen as a reason to kill more instead of kill less and have respect for the life you take is pathetic.

      But keep ranting to me in your total misread of what I’m saying.

      Just popping in to say the main reason that attitude is dumb because there is no such thing as moral absolutism.

      animal exploitation as mass slavery, mass torture and mass murder

      Do we consider antibiotics exploitative to penicillin? Do we cry over every breath we take in which our immune system automatically murders billions of bacteria?

      Just because plants don’t have faces like ours and don’t look like us and don’t scream when we kill them killing plants is fine somehow. They’re all alive, you’re still killing life, and in our great inhuman lack-of-wisdom we’ve decided that if it doesn’t have a brain and consciousness like ours, then it most not have consciousness and thus it’s okay to murder and exploit them.

      Just call me the fucking Lorax. Who speaks for the trees, dude?

      Anyway, no such thing as moral absolutism and these people will continue to climb higher and higher on their holier-than-thou-mountain only to become caricatures of a real person.

      • yetAnotherUser@discuss.tchncs.de
        1·
        2 months ago

        Isn’t it pretty apparent?

        If it can feel pain and suffer it shouldn’t.

        Bacteria do not have the capability to feel suffering. They cannot even feel.

        Plants and fungi, despite their increased complexity, do not have the capability to suffer either.

        The entire point of the field of ethics and half the field of philosophy is to reduce suffering. Torture is bad because it causes suffering. Killing is bad because it causes suffering. Slavery is bad because it causes suffering. Rape is bad because it causes suffering. Abuse is bad because is causes suffering.

        Veganism extends this to animals who are capable of suffering in ways identical to us humans. It also raises important questions: Would it be ethical to treat aliens the same way humanity treats non-humans? What if the aliens are sufficiently stupid, yet still capable of civilization? What if they’re smarter but live in solitude? Why exactly is it unethical to kill severely mentally disabled people? Is it just because humans view themselves as superior to every other living being in the universe?

        I believe veganism is the objectively moral choice. Still, I’m not vegan for various reasons. But I don’t have any qualms with admitting my behavior is objectively wrong.

      • gaael@lemmy.world
        1·
        2 months ago

        I will not debate about whether animals, plants and bacteria suffer the same way.
        This is an argument I’ve heard time and time again from the antivegan crowd and imo falls into the “at best very uninformed, more likely troll” category.

      • FelixCress@lemmy.world
        01·
        2 months ago

        It’s pretty telling that everyone is reading this as an excuse to keep murdering instead of accepting that murder is part of being alive.

        What murder, sweetie?

    • glimse@lemmy.world
      01·
      2 months ago

      The “all or nothing” crowd really knows how to stomp on progress, huh?

      • Deceptichum@quokk.auEnglish
        1·
        2 months ago

        Are you “all or nothing” with stopping rape? Or would you be okay with some light raping happening, if the majority was anti-rape?

        They clearly view this act as something as abhorrent as we would rape, so why are you surprised they don’t want to meet half way on the topic?

        • glimse@lemmy.world
          01·
          2 months ago

          Uh, because rape doesn’t keep people alive? Because rape hasn’t been a part of the human diet since before recorded history? What the fuck??

          Take your bullshit whataboutism elsewhere. Holy shit, I have never seen such a bad take on the topic of veganism. I hope this is hyperbole and you don’t ACTUALLY think the two things are comparable.

          • Deceptichum@quokk.auEnglish
            1·
            2 months ago

            Get a fucking grip, the point was to relate it to an act you hopefully find unacceptable. The point was to make you be able to understand how other people may view the subject, and why they would not tolerate that centrist shit.

            Im not even a vegan and I can that’s a fucking weak argument, you can survive off of non-meat diets. It is not in any way required to survive.

              • jo3rn@discuss.tchncs.de
                0·
                2 months ago

                Why is it an insane comparison?

                Cows, pigs, sheeps, etc. are raped (no consent) and sexually assaulted (against their will) for dairy, meat, wool…

                • FelixCress@lemmy.world
                  01·
                  2 months ago

                  Cows, pigs, sheeps, etc. are raped (no consent) and sexually assaulted (against their will) for dairy, meat, wool…

                  😂😂😂

                  Carry on, you are hilarious.

      • ArxCyberwolf@lemmy.ca
        01·
        2 months ago

        It’s like they don’t realize that by being this hostile towards any other viewpoints, they drive away people who might otherwise be interested in becoming vegan or want to learn more. All it does is harm the community in the long run, and then they wonder why there’s a stigma around vegans. That stigma then feeds into a persecution complex and that becomes a nasty vicious cycle.

        • Bob@feddit.nl
          1·
          2 months ago

          Sorry but I think I disagree with that sentiment. I’d liken it to how fascists like to say that leftists annoy people away from the left; imagine thinking “well I disagree with using animals as a resource in the human endeavour but they’re just so mean/annoying/polemic that I’ll just keep doing the thing I disagree with”. It just seems childish and you should really judge a philosophy like this on its merits instead.

    • FelixCress@lemmy.world
      02·
      2 months ago

      When you consider animal exploitation as mass slavery, mass torture and mass murder,

      … it is the time to speak to a psychiatrist.

      • gaael@lemmy.world
        3·
        2 months ago

        Hello dear internet user,
        It looks like you need to educate yourself on at least 3 topics before using your keyboard again:

        • why is it hurtful and not ok to rebutt other’s opinions by suggesting they are mentally ill?
        • are other animals sentient, sociable and do they feel emotions and pain?
        • how are meat and dairy products produced and how many animals live in this system?

        Once you’ve done the work, we’ll be able to agree on the basics facts and exchange arguments on how we see the situation and the precise words we want to use.

        Looking forward to engaging with you in good faith in the future,
        Me.

        • FelixCress@lemmy.world
          12·
          2 months ago

          Hello dear internet user

          It looks like you need to educate yourself about the terms like “food chain” and “what is the difference between food and humans”.

          Once you’ve done the work, we’ll be able to agree on the basics facts and exchange arguments. Looking forward to engaging with you in good faith in the future.

    • Forester@pawb.socialEnglish
      0·
      2 months ago

      Last time I walked through a field. I’m pretty sure the wheat barley and corn all casted shadows.

  • Tattorack@lemmy.world
    1·
    2 months ago

    Militant vegans always seemed cult-like to me, and nothing reinforced that idea more than seeing posts from the vegan group on here.

    Didn’t take long for me to block that community.

  • jet@hackertalks.comEnglish
    1·
    2 months ago

    Purity gatekeeping, and purity competitions, are the bane of any movement. Sorry that happened to you. FWIW I thought your comments were reasonable

    • thax@lemmy.dbzer0.com
      1·
      2 months ago

      Heh, getting warmed up for their inevitable turn to cannibalism, to rid the earth of evil humans.

    • misterdoctor@lemmy.world
      0·
      2 months ago

      Here I am fully ready to deep dive into some drama from a community I have zero investment in and it’s impossible to read 😩

  • Treczoks@lemmy.world
    1·
    2 months ago

    Looks like the vegan admin has an aggression problem. Maybe he or she should at least occasionally eat some meat to calm the cravings.

    Edit: /s, for the idiots who did not get it. Wow, are some people stuck up. Do they have the same problems that the admin had?

    • rbn@sopuli.xyzOP
      0·
      2 months ago

      she should at least occasionally eat some meat

      Even though I don’t share her point of view, that part of your comment is totally inappropriate and rude.

      • Phoenixz@lemmy.ca
        1·
        2 months ago

        It’s funny though

        Look, sometimes we make jokes at the expense of others. Don’t say you don’t because we all have and do, all the time. Stop shaming someone just because they made a joke. Have a sense of humor, understand that sometimes it’s funny to laught about going to hell. A jest here and there is perfectly fine. Also, it’s not like this person was Gandhi, they deserve some jest

        • Blaze (he/him)@feddit.orgEnglish
          0·
          2 months ago

          Making a joke about someone you don’t regularly interact with even on a forum seems to be laughing about them rather than with them.

          • Phoenixz@lemmy.ca
            11·
            2 months ago

            And sometimes a joke is just a joke. Learn to take one.

            Once we get to the point where we are perfectly sensitive to every little irk that any person might have, we will be at the point where nobody interacts with anybody because we won’t be able to as anything and everything can be insulting.

            I have people joke about me all the time, it’s fine. I’m not following this person around to yell it in their face, it’s a comment in passing. It doesn’t hurt anyone unless you decided to stop and make a big deal out of it.

            Don’t make a big deal out of it, it was a little joke, everyone is fine. I’ve been relentlessly bullied for my entire youth, and I learned the hard way that some of the bullying you call out on your own with your behavior. If you cry over every little innocent joke, people will pile on. My bullying stopped when I decided it would stop. I changed, the bullying stopped.

        • rbn@sopuli.xyzOP
          0·
          2 months ago

          I think it’s a difference if you joke about someone close to you or some stranger. Also joking about ‘vegans’ as a whole group is fine for me. But if you’re aiming at specific people with that kind of jokes, it feels more like bullying to me.

          I guess even if you didn’t know her before, we learnt in this thread that being vegan seems to be a (the?) part of her identity and that she’s pretty sensitive about it. To me that feels a bit (!) like laughing about trans person for looking unauthentic or having the wrong genitals.

          • gamermanh@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
            01·
            2 months ago

            To me that feels a bit (!) like laughing about trans person for looking unauthentic or having the wrong genitals.

            Gotta jump right to the one that’ll seem most extreme, eh?

            Veganism is a choice, being trans isn’t, that’s the difference

  • cows_are_underrated@feddit.org
    1·
    2 months ago

    The vegan Community is actually quite shit. They don’t hesitate to delete your comment just because you aren’t a vegan, even if you agree with them in certain points.

  • Sunshine (she/her)@lemmy.caEnglish
    0·
    2 months ago

    I’m not undoing the bans as the comments literally go against the definition of veganism ie no animal products for the reason of ethics, serving meat options in an establishment isn’t even vegetarian let alone vegan. Words are supposed to have meaning or language is completely pointless.

    The foods that are vegan and plant-based have zero animal products. It is not up for debate.

    You’re welcome to post and comment in flexitarian communities instead.

    • FelixCress@lemmy.world
      1·
      2 months ago

      The foods that are vegan and plant-based have zero animal products. It is not up for debate.

      You do realise that plants get pollinated by animals, right?

      • Sunshine (she/her)@lemmy.caEnglish
        0·
        2 months ago

        And…? They’re not being used by humans. They do it out of their free will in the wild.

        You’re gasping at straws.

        • FelixCress@lemmy.world
          1·
          2 months ago

          They do it out of their free will in the wild.

          That’s like bees and honey, yes? Do you eat honey? Eggs?

          • Sunshine (she/her)@lemmy.caEnglish
            0·
            2 months ago

            I don’t eat those. You have to imprison and exploit chickens and bees for those 2 things. Pollination is no way comparable.

            Veganic farms don’t use bees and if they’re there it’s because they’re interested in some flowers or scent.

            • FelixCress@lemmy.world
              1·
              2 months ago

              imprison and exploit chickens and bees

              That’s hilarious, especially when referring to bees

              Pollination is no way comparable.

              Pollination is not comparable to honey production? Oh boy, I may have a news for you.

              if they’re there it’s because they’re interested in some flowers or scent.

              Yup, just like anywhere else. Chickens are interested in being fed and have a night time shelter where they be safe.

              • Sunshine (she/her)@lemmy.caEnglish
                1·
                2 months ago

                Great now you’re grasping at straws. Arguing in bad faith.

                Bees aren’t murdered or starved for pollination that’s what happens under honey production by bee enslavers.

                Laying eggs is a painful experience for hens and people who sell their eggs prioritize the production output over the living environment for the chickens.

                • FelixCress@lemmy.world
                  11·
                  2 months ago

                  Great now you’re grasping at straws.

                  That’s what you are doing with your argument that pollination by bees is somehow different.

                  bee enslavers.

                  🤣🤣🤣

                  Laying eggs is a painful experience for hens

                  How do you know that, exactly? Any evidence?

                  people who sell their eggs prioritize the production output over the living environment for the chickens.

                  And yet I somehow don’t see plenty of free roaming chickens living around. Have you ever considered why?

    • TJDetweiler@lemmy.caEnglish
      1·
      2 months ago

      Serious question, not meant to be antagonistic. I’m honestly just curious.

      Is the purpose of your community to simply be an echo chamber of similar opinions? Is debate not allowed, or having a different opinion?

      I will never visit that community, but this seems like a wild abuse of mod powers. You do whatever you want, I don’t care and have no skin in the game, but don’t you want to foster discussion on your community? An echo chamber with other vegans doesn’t seem conducive to achieving anything, other than maybe a feels good circlejerk. The downvote button exists if you have a different opinion. A straight ban for not toeing the line seems like further isolating your view points from the greater Lemmy community, as well as entrenches the view point a lot of people have that vegans are hostile to non-vegans.

      Calling other vegans fake vegans and banning them tho is whack as fuck but pretty hilarious

      • YarrMatey@lemmy.dbzer0.com
        2·
        2 months ago

        When I go to a vegan community, I don’t want to debate with carnists. I would consider that trolling. There are other places meant for debating. Vegan communities are basically safe spaces to talk with other vegans and people that want to be vegan.

        Too many carnists troll the vegan communities, they created this problem. I first joined lemmy during the reddit exodus on a .world account. The vegan community at that point was poorly moderated and most of the comments were carnists circle jerking about how eating meat is so great to them. Finally, active people took over and it became so much better to actually browse that community once these trolls were banned. This behavior is nothing new btw, I’ve seen assholes on reddit and facebook do the same to vegan spaces. You’ll notice I’m no longer on .world, I disagree with their modding practices and lately I feel even more justified in leaving that cesspool.

        I want vegan news, vegan recipes, and vegan discussion. I do not want carnists coming in, at all. People can come in asking genuine questions about veganism, but no debating whatsoever. I do not mod any of these communities btw, but this is what I want as a user.

        It seems hostile to you because you have not had to deal with the constant carnist trolls. People who complain vegans are militant or hostile is a red flag for me, it really means that vegans are too unapologetic about their veganism instead of being passive people who don’t rock the boat or question the status quo. These people are defensive about vegans pointing out that they are consuming products made from abuse, rape, and murder. They want to be treated with kiddie gloves. Sorry, but no vegan is obligated to do so.

        • TJDetweiler@lemmy.caEnglish
          0·
          2 months ago

          Thanks for the honest reply. I guess a couple thoughts I have on your response.

          1. The screenshot in question was a vegan banning other vegans for not being vegan enough, so this didn’t seem like carnist trolls, this seems like multiple people integrated within the vegan community getting banned for having a slightly different opinion.

          2. Is carnists a real term? I don’t think I have ever heard of someone who eats exclusively meat, unless this term is meant a different way

          Anyway, sorry about the trolling you experience. I am personally not vegan, though I find the endeavor admirable. I think a lot of Lemmy and social media, and social circles in general need to practice a bit of “live and let live”

          • YarrMatey@lemmy.dbzer0.com
            2·
            18 days ago

            Hope the late reply is fine, I had a trip that wiped me out.

            1. yes, the mod is being protective of the community. To you it is a slightly different opinion, to someone who follows a vegan lifestyle, it is not really vegan. Like at all. Vegans want to eliminate meat altogether. So if you eliminate meat by having a vegan restaurant, but then bring meat in, it is not vegan anymore. Idk what I would have done as a mod. Wanting meat at a restaurant is not vegan even if you are just trying to attract more customers so you do not close down. It might make more sense if you replace the word “meat” with “abuse, rape, and murder.” Would you accept a little murder, even killing children to stay in business? I get it is hard to get a non-vegan to try vegan food, I’ve written before about how my SO basically refuses to try vegan food.

            2. carnists is a real term. It is:

            “A proponent of carnism; one who supports the practice of eating meat and using other animal products.”

            https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/carnist

            It is the opposite of veganism. They are essentially anti-vegan. They like to go in vegan areas and debate with everyone to try to justify their consumption of meat. It makes them feel good to troll us.

            And yes there are people who try to eat nothing but meat, it is called a carnivore diet. I have a family member who is on the diet, they pretty much only want to eat steak. There is a new community on lemmy about it, I blocked it obviously. The mod of said community was whining about their stuff getting downvoted in their community on a different lemmy community. Judging by the amount of people (including admins) who hate vegans on lemmy.world, I thought their community would be very successful.

            I get the whole “live and let live” thing about a difference in opinion on who the best character on a show you are watching is. But when it involves actual lives, I think it’s time to speak up. Vegans are annoying because they want people to stop killing animals for consumption and people would rather vegans just shut up and go away so they can enjoy their meat without thinking about where it came from, that’s it. Talk about veganism outside of a vegan community and be prepared to get ratioed.

              • YarrMatey@lemmy.dbzer0.com
                1·
                2 months ago

                A carnist is the opposite to a vegan, the opposing side. If you support the use and consumption of animal products, you are a carnist. If you are vegan, I am interested in how you define carnism. If you are not vegan, I am not interested in how you define it.

                https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnism

                Central to the ideology is the acceptance of meat-eating as “natural”, “normal”, “necessary”, and (sometimes) “nice”, known as the “Four Ns”… The arguments were that humans are omnivores (natural), that most people eat meat (normal), that vegetarian diets are lacking in nutrients (necessary), and that meat tastes good (nice).

                EDIT: this person is not a vegan and is actually a carnist wasting people’s time